How to CoC a changeover switch??

[Leecatt]

Love the can of worms
With a full inspection you are required to throw the book at the installation.
To satisfy yourself that it is reasonable safe you are only required to see that there is not any imminent danger through normal daily usage of the installation.
Earth continuity readings, for example, to each and every socket outlet are not required if all the plugs are fed from a working ELCB
That would classify as "compliance".
If "compliance" were the aim "reasonably safe" would be redundant in the regs.

I'm going to re read section 5 because I think I may be missing something here. 😩

[Sparks]

I see this thread has had over 700 views, come on guys, share your thoughts. How do you see it? We plod along in the direction we were pointed, but sometimes we end up on the wrong path.

[AndyD]

I can only speak from the commercial side, we don't CoC the entire installation when we install a new control panel or circuit, in my humble opinion it would be unreasonable to expect it and unreasonable to expect the customer to pay thousands extra. We do however run the usual safety tests on the DB that's supplying our system, we check earth impedances, N-E voltage and general supply integrity etc.

[ACEsterhuizen]

i don understand where is the confusion. The law is clear:

Issuing of certificate of compliance
9.
(1) No person other than a registered person may issue a certificate of compliance. THE POINT IS CLEAR.

(2) A registered person may issue a certificate of compliance accompanied by the required test report only after having satisfied himself or herself by means of an inspection and test that (CLEAR POINT.)

(a)a new electrical installation complies with the provisions of regulation 5(1) and was carried out under his or her general control; or (CLEAR POINT)

(b)an electrical installation which existed prior to the publication of the current edition of the health and safety standard incorporated into these Regulations in terms of regulation 5(1), complies with the general safety principles of such standard; or (on page 69 clause 5 of our regulation book) (VERY CLEAR)

(c)an electrical installation referred to in paragraph (b), to which extensions or alterations have been effected, that

(i) the existing part of the electrical installation complies with the general safety principles of such standard and is reasonably safe, and (CLEAR POINTS: MUST COMPLY TO CLAUSE 5 AND BE REASONABLY SAFE)

(ii) the extensions or alterations effected comply with the provisions of regulation 5(1) and were carried out under his or her general control.

ABOVE STATEMENTS MAKES IT CLEAR WHEN YOU CAN ISSUE A COC AND WHAT CRITERIA MUST BE MET.

(3)If at any time prior to the issuing of a certificate of compliance any fault or defect is detected in any part of the electrical installation, the registered person shall refuse to issue such certificate until that fault or defect has been rectified: Provided that if such fault or defect in the opinion of the registered person constitutes an immediate danger to persons in a case where electricity is already supplied, he or she shall forthwith take steps to disconnect the supply to the circuit in which the fault or defect was detected and notify the chief inspector thereof.

(4)Any person who undertakes to do electrical installation work shall ensure that a valid certificate of compliance is issued for that work.

(5)No person may amend a certificate of compliance.

[ians]

IF i had to test the entire installation of every installation i work on, very few properties would pass a COC inspection.

I put my blinkers on and take my chances like the the majority of contractors and inspectors in SA. You cant police and industry if you dont have a structure in place to enforce the laws.

Just a word of warning listening to the person who's building collapsed, BEWARE of people who say just sign it over or threaten you as an inspector that you will loose your job if you dont turn a blind eye. This court case going on in Durban is a good example of how people will use you and promise you the world until the sh!t hits the fan. Then turn on you when they are put in firing line. There are no friends when it comes to your signature on a piece of paper.

[skatingsparks]

I installed an extra socket in a shop in East gate shopping center, could be a good 5 years work testing the rest of the mall now to confirm its reasonably safe.
Seriously, i put in section 3 what i am taking responsibility for. When the client signs their part of the COC they accept that is the case. That's why it is important for the client to sign it. They accept the limitation of what you can reasonably do. What I do take responsibility for it is tested to the letter of the SANS book.
We do a lot of shop rewires. Is a shopping centre going to let you switch of the whole mall so you can do a no load voltage test, er..no. If they won't let us switch it of at the source we put in the COC (usually on a separate attachment) that this was the case and it the responsibility of the shopping centre to ensure the suitability of the supply. They sign it, I keep a copy. They accept the limitation of what can be done, I feel you are covered.

[Dave A]

Does the shop not have its own db?

[Pieter00]

Okay so you issue a cod for the change over switch installed. But what if the existing circuit breakers are some of those old once with a 30A circuit breaker rating for a plug circuit which is found in some of the older homes? Surely you need to change the circuit breaker to 20A the plugs cannot handle 30A. You should surely notify the client that your section of the installation complies but that part which it’s connected to or feeding power to, does not comply with general safety?

[ians]

Okay so you issue a cod for the change over switch installed. But what if the existing circuit breakers are some of those old once with a 30A circuit breaker rating for a plug circuit which is found in some of the older homes? Surely you need to change the circuit breaker to 20A the plugs cannot handle 30A. You should surely notify the client that your section of the installation complies but that part which it’s connected to or feeding power to, does not comply with general safety?

only if the installation has been modified or if what i see in most cases ...someone has added a plug and used 2.5 mm wire.

[Leecatt]

Okay so you issue a cod for the change over switch installed. But what if the existing circuit breakers are some of those old once with a 30A circuit breaker rating for a plug circuit which is found in some of the older homes? Surely you need to change the circuit breaker to 20A the plugs cannot handle 30A. You should surely notify the client that your section of the installation complies but that part which it’s connected to or feeding power to, does not comply with general safety?

You are absolutely correct.

ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION REGULATIONS
Section 8, part (2) No person shall connect or permit the connection of any completed or partially completed electrical installation to the electricity supply, unless it has been inspected and tested by a registered person and a certificate of compliance for that electrical installation has been issued.

In my conversations with the ECA I was told that there is only one way to ascertain whether or not an installation complies, and that is to do a full inspection regardless of previously issued certificates. The reason for this is that once you issue that additional certificate then you automatically take responsibility for the entire installation.

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[ians]

16 amp plug tops are not rated for 20 amp circuit breakers.

A 30 amp breaker is for the wiring of the installation not the plug top or 0.5 - 1.5 mm cabtyre used in most cases for appliances.

There is no need to replace the 30 amp breakers if the integrity of the existing electrical installation has not been compromised... it is best to walk around and look for new socket outlets ...there is a good chance if there are then someone has used 2.5 mm to wire the new plug unaware of the old 30 amp breakers and i would bet all my old broken circuit breakers that there will not be a COC for the new socket outlet.

[ians]

full inspection regardless of previously issued certificates. The reason for this is that once you issue that additional certificate then you automatically take responsibility for the entire installation.

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What a load of crap...please ask the person from the ECA to put this statement in writing... i would like to send this statement to the AIA and see what their response would be...or even better ...the DOL ...would be a more interesting response ..if any.

[Leecatt]

What a load of crap...please ask the person from the ECA to put this statement in writing... i would like to send this statement to the AIA and see what their response would be...or even better ...the DOL ...would be a more interesting response ..if any.

So you are quite happy to issue an additional certificate without giving consideration to the legitimacy of the existing installation?

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[Leecatt]

Also read section 9 part 2 (c)

9. (1) No person other than a registered person may issue a certificate of compliance
(2) A registered person may issue a certificate of compliance accompanied by the required test report only after having satisfied himself or herself by means of an inspection and test that
(a) a new electrical installation complies with the provisions of regulation 5(1) and was carried out under his or her general control; or
(b) an electrical installation which existed prior to the publication of the current edition of the health and safety standard incorporated into these Regulations in terms of regulation 5(1), complies with the general safety principles of such standard; or
(c) an electrical installation referred to in paragraph (b), to which extensions or alterations have been effected, that
(i) the existing part of the electrical installation complies with the general safety principles of such standard and is reasonably safe

Is there another way, other than to inspect the existing installation, to satisfy (c) (I)?

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[ians]

So you are quite happy to issue an additional certificate without giving consideration to the legitimacy of the existing installation?

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That is not the point ...let gets this right... you are not responsible for the entire installation if you issue a supplementary COC to an existing COC... you are only responsible for the part which is covered by your COC...unless you offer to carry out a full inspection report and submit a new COC for the entire building

Just imagine if every time you did a little job you become liable for the entire installation... not gona happen... some of the installations i work on have 3-4 different contractors doing installation work and they have their own maintenance teams.

I believe this statement is incorrect..please feel free to correct me if you can prove otherwise.


"The reason for this is that once you issue that additional certificate then you automatically take responsibility for the entire installation."