COC question

**Dave A** · 27-Apr-16, 04:24 PM

This thread on Basic Compliance Requirements should give some useful food for thought on the subject.

**Leecatt** · 28-Apr-16, 07:23 AM

In my opinion the electrical installation stops at the point where the light fitting is connected to the wiring, ie. the connectors. If the light fitting does not work is not covered by the COC, but it must be in a safe condition.
Socket outlets however are included in the electrical installation as the point of consumption is the outlet terminals of the socket.
A good example is that when inspecting an old installation where the metal pipes were used as an earth, should the earth path be within legal parameters and all socket outlets in the circuit be original and working, then it can be passed. However, should one or more socket outlets be of the modern variety where an earth wire is required, then that circuit needs to be upgraded and earth wires installed.
Similarly if a modern suffix type cable has been introduced into the circuit then the circuit needs earthing wire to be installed.
The only time I make an exception to this rule is when the non-shutter-type variety of socket outlets are present. I will replace the socket outlets to the shuttered variety and install the relevant earth wires. I book this down to safety reasons, no 3 year old is going to electrocute themselves off a socket that I have passed.

**joshthejew** · 28-Apr-16, 07:50 AM

I see Dave.

Ok. as long as the circuit is safe, it doesn't matter if the light fitting works or not. will make my COC repairs a wee bit cheaper. but will always give the option. estate agents might want them repaired just to keep a client happy. As in the other thread stated, If you make such a big investment on something, you expect it to be working.

another thing i do at almost every house is remove the extractor fan from the light switch and take its live and neutral the a isolator switch on the light switch grid. (which means they must pay for the relevant lever grid and the isolator, and if the original is void, it must also be replaced.

Started doing it after a few coc courses and reading on Fixed appliances.

6.16.1.1 Fixed appliances do not form part of the electrical installation other than their positioning in relation to the supply and the wiring carried out between different parts of the appliances. Amdt 1
6.16.1.2 Deleted by amendment No. 4.
6.16.1.3 The power supply to every fixed appliance, except luminaires,
shall be supplied through
a) a disconnecting device that disconnects both live conductors in a single-phase supply and all phase conductors in a multiphase supply.

Unless the light circuit is on earth leakage, it needs its own isolator.

**MullerR** · 28-Apr-16, 12:44 PM

Leecatt. Thanx for mentioning that. The small little town I stay in currently have lots of old houses with open wiring and they use the steel conduit as earth. Most of the plugs you can see are changed during the course of time even the light switches are changed from the old round switches mounted on the wooden blocks to new steel wall boxes and switches. The DB's are quite a shock to see sometimes where the wires are open, stove and geyser on one circuit, mcb's are not labelled, the list go on. Now, my recommendation usually to the owner is to either replace the steel wall boxes, plugs and light switches with PVC type, or draw in an earth wire to earth the steel boxes, as according to reg. "6.12.1.3 a wireway shall not be used as an earth continuity conductor". However I must say, some of the installations are still in quite good condition and some of the additions were done good, but then you get the additions where I think for myself where on earth did this guy get his/her training and where is the pride in their work. Just one of the many crazy stuff I cameaccross.

**ACEsterhuizen** · 29-Apr-16, 01:21 PM

Just keep Regulation 9 of the OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY ACT, 1993 ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION REGULATIONS in mind when issuing a CoC, and the 3 distinct categories where a coc can be issued as defined: (see down below)

And what I am trying to make clear is that "the existing part" "before the publication" (which is 6 March 2009) only has to comply with the "general safety principles" of the SANS 10142 Standards (which is defined on page 69 of your Standards Book as: CLAUSE 5. Fundamental requirements.

NOTE This clause contains the general safety principles applicable to electrical
installations

So, not clause 6, or clause 7, or clause 8 or any other clause in your standards BUT Clause 5, The General Safety Principles. That Clause 5 is the ONLY Clause the existing installation or existing part of an installation has to comply with. Not all the other Clauses.

So, the new plug socket on the old metal conduit (existing) with the old wiring (existing) where they use the metal pipe as an earth, why must a separate earth wire be pulled through if Clause 5 does not specify it? The Regulation "6.12.1.3 a wireway shall not be used as an earth continuity conductor" is not in Clause 5, the condiut and wiring has not changed, it is still "existing as before 2009) so why would you put in a seperate earth if the condiut (wireway) was used and the readings are fine?

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY ACT, 1993 ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION REGULATIONS

9. (1) No person other than a registered person may issue a certificate of compliance.

(2) A registered person may issue a certificate of compliance accompanied by the required test report only after having satisfied himself or herself by means of an inspection and test that

(a) a new electrical installation complies with the provisions of regulation 5(1) and was carried out under his or her general control; or

(b) an electrical installation which existed prior to the publication of the current edition of the health and safety standard incorporated into these Regulations in terms of regulation 5(1), complies with the general safety principles of such standard; or

(c) an electrical installation referred to in paragraph (b), to which extensions or alterations have been effected, that

(i) the existing part of the electrical installation complies with the general safety principles of such standard and is reasonably safe, and

(ii) the extensions or alterations effected comply with the provisions of regulation 5(1) and were carried out under his or her general control.

**MullerR** · 02-May-16, 10:16 AM

When you out out that way, its more clear to me now. In short, if the installation is an existing one it must comply with clause 5 and be safe. Thanx for helping me here ACEsterhuizen. This is an eye opener for me to consider a coc refresher course as well. Just another question, what edition do you have of the ohs act?

**ACEsterhuizen** · 03-May-16, 04:59 PM

It is 2009. and also here.

**pawl** · 10-Oct-18, 03:23 PM

Certificate of Compliance (Electrical)

Originally posted by joshthejew

When I issue a COC, I know every electrical point that is on that installation has either been repaired and working or removed completely. whichever the client deems best for their pockets. Now that would be the RIGHT way to do a good job in my opinion.
But I've seen people just issuing COC's where I can clearly see no work has been done. Extractor fan still on the same switch as the light and both don't work, half the lamps in the house are out, burnt plugs. Am i just too fussy with issuing my COC's and losing work because of it? Or am i right?

As i see it. to issue a coc, all light points and plug points etc etc should be working before issuing the COC.

In terms of the OHS Act, the provisions of this part of SANS 10142 apply only from the point of control to the point of consumption.

The first words on the definition on point of consumption is point of outlet.

And in this case, the point of consumption is the point of outlet.

3.57
point of outlet
termination of an electrical installation, which has been provided for connecting any electrical machinery without the use of a tool

That includes light fittings and socket outlets.

I am experiencing a house sale in which it was mutually agreed by seller & buyer that a CoC would not be required as the house will be "rebuilt". However the Bond issuing authority (Bank?) states they will not provide the bond without a CoC. I propose a disconnection of supply to the DB to achieve a situation where there can be no point of consumption. Would that be legitimate. Comment very welcome.

**GCE** · 10-Oct-18, 04:14 PM

Hi

We have disconnected the installation from the DB in similar requests and cut the wiring to ensure nobody connects up behind us.
We have then installed a socket for the burglar alarm system and a couple of security lights .
Issued a coc then just for the Db , socket and security lights

**pawl** · 10-Oct-18, 05:17 PM

Very many thanks.

**ians** · 11-Oct-18, 07:32 AM

Originally posted by GCE

Hi

We have disconnected the installation from the DB in similar requests and cut the wiring to ensure nobody connects up behind us.
We have then installed a socket for the burglar alarm system and a couple of security lights .
Issued a coc then just for the Db , socket and security lights

The catch with doing this, make sure the purchaser has not seen the house before you start cutting wiring.

If there is a light or plug and you have removed or cut the wiring , the seller will be liable to make it work. One of the reasons I always tell my customers to do the COC before they put the property on the market.

**Mellet L** · 23-Jul-19, 10:11 AM

Good morning

According to the new SANS 10142-1:2017
6.16.1 note - The general requirements in 6.16.1.1 to 6.16.1.12 apply, except where otherwise required for specific cases.
6.16.1.1 remains the same
6.16.1.2 The power supply to every fixed appliance, except luminaires, shall be supplied through
a) a disconnecting device that disconnects both live conductors in a single phase supply and all phase conductors in a multi phase supply, or
b)a socket outlet that is directly accessible at all times that any person is exposed to such appliance while the supply is on. In the case of a remotely installed appliance, the position of the disconnecting device shall be indicated by means of a notice in close proximity to or on the appliance.
6.16.1.3 Where a fan or heater is included in a luminaire, the luminaire is regarded as a fixed appliance. If the luminaire circuit is protected by an earth leakage protection device that has a rated earth leakage tripping current (rated residual current) not exceeding 30mA, a disconnector is not required (see 6.9.3.1).
6.9.3.1 An appliance or equipment that is not supplied from a socket outlet, including equipment automatically or remote controlled, shall be capable of being disconnected from the supply by an easily accessible switch disconnector. The disconnector shall be mounted (if not specified elsewhere in this part of SANS 10142, but excluding luminaire circuits) (see also 6.16.1.4)
a) within arm,s reach from the terminals of the appliance, or
b) in a distribution board, if the device is capable of being locked in the open position.
The disconnector can control more than one appliance if the functions of the appliances are ralated. Where equipment which belongs to the supplier of electricity (such as meters or remote controlled load switching) is installed, the main switch may be regarded as the disconnecting device.
6.16.1.4 The disconnecting device shall be positioned
a) within 1.5m from the appliance, or
b) in a distribution board (if the switch-disconnector is capable of being locked in the open position).
Even where a disconnecting device is on the appliance, a separate disconnecting device shall be provided in the fixed installation to allow for the removal of the appliance.

Hoping that this clears up any confusion between you and your potential client.