New sockets - sans 164-2

[skatingsparks]

Has anyone/everyone started using the new S.A. sockets (like mobile phone charger but with earth pin). I read that from March 2018 it is mandatory to have at least one in each socket point. Wholesalers are not really carrying them and clients have 'not taking the news well'.
I sent a mail out to all clients that the new socket is coming into effect with new installations. The general response was "why do I want that crap". Are all you guys using them now? In terms of C.O.C.'s on new installs? Some clients REALLY don't want them.

[GCE]

Hi

The regulation (Sans 10142 Ed2 ) has been out since March 2017 warning us that it would take effect from Jan 2018 - From January you cannot sign a COC on new installations unless the socket outlet point complies.
Any COC for a new installation that was issued after Jan 2018 and did not have a "euro" socket ( SANS164-2) installed at every socket outlet point is invalid - You could be held liable to return and correct the installation at your own cost.
At the moment there is no option but to install.


SANS 10142-1 ED 2 - pg 177 - 6.15.1.1.1 c - effective from January 2018 all socket-outlet points for new electrical installations shall include at least one socket-outlet complying with the dimensions of SANS 164-2.Socket-outlets points may also include socket-outlets complying with the dimensions of SANS 164-1.

[Dave A]

Any COC for a new installation that was issued after Jan 2018 and did not have a "euro" socket ( SANS164-2) installed at every socket outlet point is invalid

Hi Graham,

Isn't this influenced by commencement date of the project? Pretty rough if the project started a year ago...

[GCE]

Hi Dave

Yes and No answer but valid point - Page 3 of the code refers to the signing date of the contract - If the contract was signed before the publication date of March 2017 ( Date mentioned in the Foreward of the code) then you can continue with the old code
Any contract signed after March 2017 would need to comply with the new socket requirement.The code gave us 9 months warning to assist in a bit of flexibility.

I would not agree with anybody saying that my contract was signed in November with a due date of Febuary and therefore I can install according to the old code.

We went through the argument in November with a tender that was put out in September and did not allow for the new socket requirement.When we were awarded the contract in November we pointed out the requirement and used it to our advantage.
We also had a contract signed in April and due for completion in December which ran overtime and was finally finished in Feb 2018 - That was a bit of a grey area and took a bit of dancing to get around.

[skatingsparks]

I knew it was the new standard. Its just-
1. Its just not going to work in some installations.
2. The client DOES NOT want it.
And finally, all wholesalers are still selling normally double sockets. If its an addition to an existing do they all have to have the new style socket.
Can it still be signed of in terms if C.O.C.. The client needs a normal double socket. A normal socket and a new style won't work for the application? Or if the client requests old style sockets - then what?

[skatingsparks]

In cab strut now. The cradles and cover plates don't have capacity for a new and old style..... They are not aware....

[skatingsparks]

And builders warehouse/makro/mica. Still all selling old style.

[IMGREG]

What do we do when installing new Orange Industrial Socket Outlets in Factories.

Also installing a lot of Power skirting soon with 2x4 plugs in them.

[GCE]

Hi

Will try answer the questions above as I see them

We , as Electrical Contractors, seem to spend to much time worrying about what the client wants and start stuttering when he tells us NO - At the end of the day we are legally responsible for the COC and that client will be extremely quick to turn around at a later stage when something goes wrong , or insurance does not pay out. Insurance look for any reason not to pay and are using professionals , and AIA's , to inspect and verify electrical COC's.
The alarm installers, car manufactures , insurance companies, banks etc will not budge from what they say is the law
Trying telling the banks you are not going to comply with FICA , you just will have to do without a bank account.
We as electrical contractors should be all in this together as we all operate under the same laws.

The regulations as they stand say you must have a euro socket at every outlet point - Then I don't see how you can do a new installation without sticking to the regulations, as the COC cannot be valid if the installation does not comply.

If we have a look at the definition of Installation work in the OHSA , which is what gives SANS 10142 teeth , it defines it as - the installation, extension, modification or repair of an electrical installation.
I see the replacement of a faulty socket outlet as "repair of an electrical installation " and would therefore need to install a euro

What the suppliers want to hold as stock and try and sell is not our problem - We need to install sockets with euro's and so the supplier must supply me with what I request - I am the one signing the COC and taking responsibility not them.If everybody was working according to the regulations then they would have a serious amount of dead stock.Some of our suppliers have already changed there stock holdings with regards to socket outlets.
The manufactures are all well aware of the changes as some of them had an integral part in making those changes .

Industrial sockets are a problem at the moment and the only way round is to install a socket and extension box.

Power skirt - We install 1 euro for every normal 16 amp socket - There are the module power skirt covers and sockets available for most power skirts and socket manufacturers.If your supplier has not kept up with the times then it is still not a valid reason to sign off an installation that does not comply - Rather change suppliers

Certain socket manufacturers have module type 4x4 sockets available where you can still put 2 normal round pin sockets and 2 euro's into a 4x4 box - A socket outlet does not need to be switched.

There are Euro rewireable plug tops available which can be fitted to appliances - The plug tops should take care of most clients objections.

[skatingsparks]

I spike to the ECA this morning (recorded the call and everything). Their guy said- If its a new install from the ground up then yes 100% you MUST have the Euro Socket. If its an addition to an existing then its a bit if tricky area. If the quote/job was agreed before January its another thing. As clear as I read the regs I can't see the change over being being smooth. I'm now going to tell my clients that there is an additional charge for every socket point I have quoted on.

[AndyD]

And builders warehouse/makro/mica. Still all selling old style.

Maybe these for the low budget customer?

https://www.acdc.co.za/pages/product-individual?A7403

Any idea why they only rate it as 10A?

**edit** or these; https://www.acdc.co.za/pages/product-individual?B7403

or these https://www.acdc.co.za/pages/product...idual?SP7403-W

If the customer has a taste for higher end accessories go speak to Dave at DM Agencies for LeGrand, I was there the other day and they definately have stock.

[skatingsparks]

Maybe these for the low budget customer?

https://www.acdc.co.za/pages/product-individual?A7403

Any idea why they only rate it as 10A?

**edit** or these; https://www.acdc.co.za/pages/product-individual?B7403

or these https://www.acdc.co.za/pages/product...idual?SP7403-W

Thanks Andy. I have gone for Onesto. Middle of the road.

Not sure what ACDC is like in your area but by me there are not enough hours in the day to stand and wait whilst they sign you in at the gate, wait to be served, they pick, security clear, unpack everything, check, sign out and even then most of the time at least one thing I buy from ACDC will crap out and then spend an hour or 2 trying to get something with an obviously fault - changed or they offer to "repair"

Power skirting I'm just going to meet the customer in the middle.

I'm surprised this isn't more public awareness on this - no adverts in builders warehouse, wholesalers etc. Clients don't want to go for new style because they have no idea its been phased out.

Even companies we work for who supply appliances are in the dark (not literally).

I just see this as one of those things where I will quoting on jobs with the new and old style and the guys I'm quoting against will just be using old (cheaper) style.

With Onesto the price difference is about R60. Do that over a domestic with, say, 20 sockets you are already R1200 more expensive than the other guy.

I think it will take a few months (or until wholesalers get rid of old stock) before them push the new style.

[GCE]

Hi

We have not had a problem in getting stock of the "new" socket outlets from the preferred specified manufacturers .Pulled a cost report and see we have purchased 287 - 4x4 units and 153 for power skirt in the past 5 months
The price is around 50% higher then the old double socket but have noticed a 25% decrease in price during this year so far.
As the qty's increase and the manufacturers have more stock the pricing should hopefully settle back down to normal.

We have noticed that the standard type extractor hoods coming out for domestic have the new euro plug top which means you can just install a single euro 4x2 above the hood.Still need to stop past an appliance outlet and see what is coming out on the fridges etc.

[AndyD]

.....Not sure what ACDC is like in your area but by me there are not enough hours in the day to stand and wait whilst they sign you in at the gate, wait to be served, they pick, security clear, unpack everything, check, sign out and even then most of the time at least one thing I buy from ACDC will crap out and then spend an hour or 2 trying to get something with an obviously fault - changed or they offer to "repair"

Yeah they can be hard work.

Just out of interest I was in Builders Warehouse (Tokai) this afternoon and they've got a pretty full range of LeGrand in there.

[skatingsparks]

Le Grand is French for 'expensive'. And if it isn't it should be. I like le Grand. Nice to work with but it comes at a price.