12v to 220v LED down lights Earthing Question

[ELECT 1]

When the installation is upgraded from say 12v 50w halogen to 220v to a GU 10 bracket + block connection which has a porcelain type holder
to accommodate a LED lamp.
Now the lamp is plastic, the holder is non conductive , but the requirement is for the fitting to be earthed.
Only recently you get fittings with an earth terminal.
What happens to all those other installations that haven't. There is some type of an affair where you could slide the lamp holder
into the spring, also there is a space on some fitting to slide the point of the holder into.
But both those are wishy washy, But would the light point pass under that clause that its out of arms reach....
You see there is another regulation that says all metal fittings to be earthed....so what is what....
Ian

[AndyD]

I've seen the retrofit GU10 lamp holders that have an earth terminal but they just slide under the spring of the fitting so continuity would be hit and miss. I'm not sure about their legality although they're available from most, if not all wholesalers. I'd guess it would come down to what SABS approval they carried.

[ELECT 1]

So this is how it looks
also did one with green earth wire

[AndyD]

^^ Yeah, that's the type I've seen before, but with the 12 volt downlight rings there's usually no earth screw provided for a flylead because the 12v transformers are classII insulated making an earth optional. I personally would avoid converting or retrofitting old 12v downlights into 230v GU10 especially given the very low cost of a complete new GU10 fitting.

[SeanM]

Morning Elect

With regards to your question, "But would the light point pass under that clause that its out of arms reach"


c) exposed conductive parts of fixed electrical equipment that are
1) out of arm's reach from the floor (or walking) level,
2) out of arm's reach from a structure that is bonded to earth, and
3) not exposed to the weather or to the condensation, dripping,
splashing or accumulation of water, and
4) not touching a conductive surface;

I don't see why not

I am a huge believer in earthing this is my own preference

[ELECT 1]

@Sean, Actually that clause is a B/S clause, as in the regs in another place it clearly states that all metal fittings must be earthed.
And also out of arms reach,
Lawyers have said if it goes to court it could be thrown out as why are there two opposite rules. Its either one or the other.
We just earth the thing to get the sale of the house going through.
Alot of these regs will have to be revisited by people in the industry who know what they are talking about.
Many of the regs are drawn up by people who have never seen a screwdriver it seems.

[ELECT 1]

The other peculiar reg is no exposed wiring......hehee but coming from the lamp holder there are two exposed wires going into the GU lamp holder (220v)
There are just some cases that you cant help having an exposed wire, but is it safe, thats will be the opinion of the installer at the time.
Which brings in another question, was the installer at the time making a reasonable judgement. You see where i am going....hehheee

[ELECT 1]

So the one picture is what the earthing was supposed to look like...sort of make shift i would say, and the paint would have to be scraped.
The other pic is using the same fittings but pop rivet an earth wire. The rivet has to be minute so as not to interfere with
the tilt process.
I think that the regs for this stuff should be revisited as its starting to get crazy.....1000 fittings can be tough to redo.

[bergie]

the downlighters with the built in GU10 lamholder has a very limited range. most of what i found comes in mild steel and not die cast aluminium.
just wondering but is it unsafe to not earth the lampholder? the wires and terminal box are completely separate.the wires from the lamp have heat resistant sleeving around the wires. the lamp is glass . i wouldnt call it double insulation but to me its like earthing any small metal part of an installation. such as earthing a galvanised saddle on a pvc pipe. i once had a electrician who worked for me. he riveted a danger label onto a fiberglass swimming pool box lid. he then earthed the 2 rivets

[ELECT 1]

A lot of these type of reg are B/S.....ever heard anyone got a shock from a plastic LED lamp, not me, but maybe in Pretoria they have so they got the regulation
in.

[SeanM]

Greetings all

There is a lot of emphasis on earthing the GU10 lamp holder, what danger is there if not earthed forgetting about the "out of arm's reach". The holder is not connected to any electricity it only houses the GU 10 lamp?

And the holder is painted 9/10 times so if you don't use the washer provided (meant to scrape the paint when fastened) the earthing is pointless.

[Tang]

Hi. In my opinion the downlighter fitting is the same as a lampsade of a bedside lamp(have metal frame without earth). Not really anything to do with electricity. That's why I don't bother.