COC and test report

[ians]

Think about my comments ... if I can wing it for so many years and not even update the regs for so many years ... and still be issuing COC's that are older than 10 years... how f^&*ed is this industry ?

[ians]

Lets try something different ... I have a few COC's to issue this week (people are selling and leaving this country at an alarming rate) ... they will be out the country by the time the new owners move in ... no matter how good or bad the COC is at the end of the day ... I doubt they would even bother entertaining the buyers issues.

Lets try help the buyer (I am going to say it again ... if you trust the seller with the COC ... you only have yourself to blame)

Be aware that you as the buyer will be responsible for the illegal COC ... if you decide to do what many new home owners choose to do ... just accept the illegal document and move on ... if the insurance company sends out an assessor and they find out that the COC's is not legit ... they will do a full investigation (trust me I know ... I have personally dealt with a few investigations)

You as the buyer will have to pay for the AIA to come to your house to carry out the investigation ... at your cost.

You as the buyer will be liable for all the repair costs to bring the electrical installation up to standard.

You as the buyer will be responsible for all the legal costs.

I am sure someone will set the record straight if any of the above is incorrect

I dont keep up to date with all the constant changes ... so maybe things have changed since I last checked.

The next step is to share what a R650 test report COC will look like compared to one done correctly ... please feel free to share a sample of your test report layout ... with all the code violations clearly indicated ... location of the code violation and any other details you share with the customer when preparing the quote to bring the electrical installation up to standard ... I am looking forward to see these

For R650- 850 ... I would expect to see something like ...

1/ No earth on the light.

2/ exposed wiring in the roof.

3/ circuit breaker has no label.

4/ etc etc etc

I encourage the public to cut out details ... dont make it a name and shame ... we just want to see the information on the report and quote.

Is it a detailed detailed breakdown or just a list as above ?

What I hear from some inspectors ... they say they dont share the details because they worried the person who does the repairs will issue the COC once they complete the repairs and they will not get paid ... sound familiar ?

[GCE]

You as the buyer will have to pay for the AIA to come to your house to carry out the investigation ... at your cost.

You as the buyer will be liable for all the repair costs to bring the electrical installation up to standard.

You as the buyer will be responsible for all the legal costs.

I am sure someone will set the record straight if any of the above is incorrect

?

The buyer will more than likely be responsible for the initial costs.
The AIA will issue the report and send to DOL to look at withdrawing the electricians license - At the same time the COC will be declared invalid and therefore fraudulent.
The electrician should then attend to his faults and pay the AIA to inspect and sign off and hopefully for the electrician the withdrawal of his license will be halted.

If the electrician refuses , then the owner could contract another electrician to carry out the repairs , pay the contractor and have a compliant installation.

He would then either open a fraud case against the electrical contractor , and electrician if not the same people , at the local police station.
Alternatively he could go civil case and sue the electrical contractor for all damages , being repairs, AIA costs etc.

A civil case will cost the electrician to defend and if he does not defend it could end up with a default judgement against him.

[GCE]

Think about my comments ... if I can wing it for so many years and not even update the regs for so many years ... and still be issuing COC's that are older than 10 years... how f^&*ed is this industry ?

Unfortunately the industry, all industries, are in a mess with contractors/businesses not adhering to the laws of the country -

As a responsible person signing off on electrical installations it should be the responsible thing to do and stay up to date with the latest regulations.
Not quite sure how anybody not staying up to date expects to stay out of trouble forever or thinks he can tell another contractor what is wrong with his installation when he cannot quote the latest regs.

[GCE]

The question is simple ... how are we going to fix the problem?

One step at a time - and by making sure that the first stone is not thrown your way.

By getting directly involved within the industry where your voice may mean something .

Employers associations, recognized business forums , need to represent the majority in the industry so that there voice means something to government.

So that their views are taken into account when new regulations are in the process of being changed , like the proposed changes that are starting to be looked at for OHSA , Electrical Installation Regulations .

[Firepool]

Lets try something different ... I have a few COC's to issue this week (people are selling and leaving this country at an alarming rate) ... they will be out the country by the time the new owners move in ... no matter how good or bad the COC is at the end of the day ... I doubt they would even bother entertaining the buyers issues.

Lets try help the buyer (I am going to say it again ... if you trust the seller with the COC ... you only have yourself to blame)

Be aware that you as the buyer will be responsible for the illegal COC ... if you decide to do what many new home owners choose to do ... just accept the illegal document and move on ... if the insurance company sends out an assessor and they find out that the COC's is not legit ... they will do a full investigation (trust me I know ... I have personally dealt with a few investigations)

You as the buyer will have to pay for the AIA to come to your house to carry out the investigation ... at your cost.

You as the buyer will be liable for all the repair costs to bring the electrical installation up to standard.

You as the buyer will be responsible for all the legal costs.

I am sure someone will set the record straight if any of the above is incorrect

I dont keep up to date with all the constant changes ... so maybe things have changed since I last checked.

The next step is to share what a R650 test report COC will look like compared to one done correctly ... please feel free to share a sample of your test report layout ... with all the code violations clearly indicated ... location of the code violation and any other details you share with the customer when preparing the quote to bring the electrical installation up to standard ... I am looking forward to see these

For R650- 850 ... I would expect to see something like ...

1/ No earth on the light.

2/ exposed wiring in the roof.

3/ circuit breaker has no label.

4/ etc etc etc

I encourage the public to cut out details ... dont make it a name and shame ... we just want to see the information on the report and quote.

Is it a detailed detailed breakdown or just a list as above ?

What I hear from some inspectors ... they say they dont share the details because they worried the person who does the repairs will issue the COC once they complete the repairs and they will not get paid ... sound familiar ?

We issue a fair few coc's a month and definitely the biggest electrical contractor and only eca registered one in a wealthy part of cape town .We make sure the house is safe and compliant to the best of our knowledge.If the inspection authority gets involved then we will take it as it comes and I have a business to run and I dont have time to stress about interpretation of things with 10 different views..They will always find stuff and actually do the industry more harm as sa is not a first world country so whats the point of making everybody do things at such a high standard like the inspection authority expects (labels on all isolaters etc) when if you were to quote to do work like that you would get no work and actually have a bad reputation and the people will always go to somebody cheaper.The new coc we still using the old one but our software is getting updated as we have a in house built in coc system.

[ians]

"THE RESPOSIBLE THING TO DO" ... back in the 80's when I started my apprenticeship ... I recall living by that statement ... it was like the phrase "COMMON SENSE" ... just imagine

Today I had a small job ... simple quoted 2 hours ... it should have been an in and out ... throw the twin across the roof space ... dont even cable tie it to anything ... push it down a pipe at the DB and connect both sides.

4 hours later I left site ... even after I threw the twin across the roof ... everything from loose connections in the DB ... to earth wires twisted in the DB and no connectors ... to high neutral to earth voltage ... to error 5 readings for the loop impedance test ... just under 2 hours I was ready to leave ... I thought just leave it its not my problem ... this is why I need to stop working on site ... who cares ... the customer said it been like that for years ... whats the problem

I then went to another site to carry out an inspection report ... 2 labels and a blank cover and I could be on my way ... who would notice that cabtyre has been used for all the lights ... its looks like white surfix ... all the switches are painted ... a tap with the hammer and they are good to go

I wish it was that simple.

[Derlyn]

. who would notice that cabtyre has been used for all the lights ... its looks like white surfix ...

@ Ians

I have never been able to find anything anywhere preventing one from using cabtyre on an installation.

We use cabtyre on all our multilever light switches.

One must, however, use bootlace ferrules on all terminations with cabtyre.

Maybe some of the other toppies know of something preventing the use of cabtyre, but I am not aware of anything.

Peace out ... Derek.

[GCE]

"
.. who would notice that cabtyre has been used for all the lights ... its looks like white surfix ... all the switches are painted ... a tap with the hammer and they are good to go

I wish it was that simple.

Had a contractor complain about the same thing yesterday - The problem when you don't keep up with regs is you want to fail what is correct
Cabtyre is allowed , reg pasted below



SANS 10142-1 ed3
6.1.11 Where flexible cords are used as part of the electrical installation, the
selection, installation and colour identification (see 6.3.3) shall be done in
accordance with this part of the standard. Flexible cords with cross sectional
area less than 1 mm2 shall not be permitted.
6.1.12 Where flexible cords are used, the strands of the conductors shall be
mechanically protected with ferrules to prevent the strands from being cut off
in terminations.

[ians]

This cabtyre reg must have been included to allow for low cost housing and ready boards ... its good to know ... like twin+E when it first came out ... only the hit and run contractors would use ... some of us still find it difficult to throw the stuff around in the roof with the alarm and CCTV wires.

A customer once made a good point ... " I don't see it in the roof so why would I care what it look like" just do the job as cheap as possible.

[Dylboy]

I too sometimes use cabtyre for switches.

Also some Cabtyre has better intrinsic properties for heat, oil and all that so in some cases better to use that.

My boss is one who saw cabtyre and inevitably failed it until I told him it can be used and then the subsequent regs.
He says still sits funny but hey.

Then I explained some of its nice uses for multiple switching and then some properties of the cable so he did see some value in that.

Either way electrical business is constant CPD.

Side note, why is it called cabtyre? Is it like creepy crawly which is a brand name that is now used for a underwater cleaner haha?
In the UK they call it flex but not sure if that is just what they call it and is actually a different item?


Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[ians]

If you look at the reg 6.1.11 and 6.3.3 ... I would assume you have to sleeve or tape the cabtyre blue wire ... if used it as a neutral.

[Dylboy]

Yes ya, have to tape up and also bootlace ferrule, or at least they say ferrule the ends. 6.1.12 is the reg in Ed 3.0

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[ians]

It is not often that you see cabtyre used to wire houses ... in all my years as a sparkie ... only twice.

Day/night switches ... that's another story ... cabtyre with yellow/green used as the return (live) and 1.5 twin with hte bare earth used as the return (live) ... with a sleeve ... very common ... in most cases the yellow/green is not taped or sleeved and the bare earth has a black sleeve.

[ians]

So we finally legit again and its time to start pumping out COC's.


The first question ... I got my hands on a copy of the new COC (issued to one of my customers ... not worth the paper it's written on)

DO I understand this correctly ... if the property has a main DB (3 phase) .. a pool DB (sinlge phase) ... a sub DB upstairs (single phase) and a sub DB (single phase) for each granny flat (X2)

The COC should consist of 1 yellow or white double sided page (with the COC on the front and the test report on the back) a white copy of the "additional test report" for each of the sub DB's ... in total 6 pages ? Can you issue one COC/test report for the entire property ... including all the DB's ... I have a feeling this is going to get interesting.

A question ... is it ok to issue a COC ... then when the new owner moves in and finds a bunch of illegal wiring ... so he contacts the inspector and points out a few things wrong with the installation.

The response from the inspector ... we will be back to fix what we didnt get around to doing ... but issued the COC anyway so that the transfer could go through.

I am confused ... I thought you issue the COC once the property is regarded as reasonably safe.

Can the new owner sue the seller and get his own inspector in to check the property and get it repaired ?

I hear there are new laws just been passed with regarded to selling a property with defects not identified in the sale agreement ? Anyone know more about this ?