No original CoC

[Dylboy]

I feel that if we had to take responsibility for the whole electrical installation of the property I would never install a plug... or a plug install will be mighty expensive and take a hell of a lot longer haha.

I take it as we take responsibility for the electrical installtion of what was installed only.

But glad this discussion is happening.

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[Leecatt]

I feel that if we had to take responsibility for the whole electrical installation of the property I would never install a plug... or a plug install will be mighty expensive and take a hell of a lot longer haha.

I take it as we take responsibility for the electrical installtion of what was installed only.

But glad this discussion is happening.

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This is the reason that I don't do installation work.

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[ians]

This is the kind of thing I deal with all the time ... how do you install a circuit breaker in this DB or should I say how do you issue a COC once you have fitted your circuit breaker in this DB and run the wire to the machine ?

[Derlyn]

I would say that
"in any part of the electrical installation"
speaks for itself.

Further,
2.8.2 Sub-regulation 2
A registered person may issue a certificate of compliance accompanied by the
required test report only after having satisfied himself or herself by means of
an inspection and test that-
(a) a new electrical installation complies with the prov1s1ons of
regulation 5(1) and was carried out under his or her general
control; or
(b) an electrical installation which existed prior to the publication of
the current edition of the health and safety standard
incorporated into these Regulations in terms of regulation 5(1 ),
complies with the general safety principles of such standard; or
(c) an electrical installation referred to in paragraph (b), to which
extensions or alterations have been effected, that-
(i) the existing part of the electrical installation complies with
the general safety principles of such standard and is
reasonably safe, and
(ii) the extensions or alterations effected comply with the
provisions of regulation 5(1) and were carried out under
his or her general control.

It is my understanding that the only way to comply with part C of the above is to do an inspection of the entire electrical installation.
It has always been my understanding that by issuing a certificate of compliance for an additional plug one takes responsibility for the entire electrical installation.

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I sort of agree.

That is why I insisted, about 2 weeks ago, on seeing the original COC for a property that had recently been transferred before issuing a supplementary for the add on's that I did.

The COC presented to me was a supplementary and I rejected it.

When the initial COC was presented, I gladly issued a supplementary to the original.

Here comes the part that I think is the reason for the supplementary COC being there.

I take responsibility for my add on's as described in the supplementary.

The electrician who issued the original takes responsibility for the rest.

Peace out ... Derek


Edit: I have searched but cannot find anything in either SANS10142 or OHSA that mentions the word " supplementary COC "
It might be helpful if, in future versions of same, some guidelines could be included pertaining to Supplementary COC's as it seems as if at the moment each electrician follows their own interpretation of what the procedure is, myself included.

If one had to issue an initial coc for adding a plug, my question then is ... why the need for a supplementary coc ?

[ians]

I found this...


Do I need a CoC when I do alterations to the electrical system on my property?

Yes. A CoC must be issued when any alterations are done to an electrical installation. For example, if traditional lighting is replaced by downlights, the electrical contractor must ensure that a valid CoC is issued for that work. Where any addition or alteration has been done to an electrical installation for which a CoC has already been issued, the user or lessor of that electrical installation must get a supplementary CoC for the addition or alteration. Both CoCs must be kept together in a safe place.

[ians]

The safety of the electrical installation is not the electrical contractors responsibility ... so if you are smart you ... you complete your socket outlet installation and advise the customer that they need to get an Initial certificate for the electrical installation ... which will include your new socket outlet

For anyone renting a property ... this is why it is so important for you as the tenant to make sure that the owner hands you all the relevant documentation when you move into the property ... the day you move into the building ... the safety of the electrical installation becomes your responsibility.

Do renting agencies make sure the property has a valid certificate ?

I know in some of the buildings my customers rent ... I insist on a COC prior to the relocation ... some of the property management agencies also carry out a thermal inspection for insurance purposes ... lets not go there ... but at least they try.

[ians]

I also found this ....

Certificate type
Indicate whether this CoC is:

A new CoC for this installation, tick ‘Initial Certificate’, indicating that this CoC constitutes the complete and whole document, or
An additional CoC to an existing one, tick ‘Supplementary Certificate’, which indicates that this is a partial document only, and it must be read together with an ‘Initial Certificate’ and possibly other ‘Supplementary Certificates’ for it to be valid.
If this is an initial CoC, enter ‘N/A’ in all three spaces on the next line, or
If this CoC is Supplementary, enter the number (1st, 2nd, 3rd etc), and the number and date of issue of the ‘Initial Certificate’.

[Derlyn]

@Ians

Where did you find that ?
That should be in SANS10142 or OHSA.

Derek.

[ians]

Google

[ians]

Another one in my favourites collection ... would you issue an initial certificate for your part of the installation ?

[ians]

At least lightning protection was installed ... it must have been when the regs changed a few years ago and everyone got into a flat spin over lightning protection ...sales went through the roof.

It makes you wonder about regulations changes ... a family member or friend has an idea to invest in a product ... they invest a few million and suddenly there is a new regulations which forces everyone to use a specific product ... nothing would surprise me.

Load shedding ... generators ... solar ... inverter ... battery sales go through the roof ... I recall when the first round of load shedding started ... this kind of stuff makes you think.

[ians]

This is an example of why random checks should be done on all COC's ... and you as a customer have to ask yourself ... all these rules and regs ... associations and legal documents and thing is the crap we have to accept ... this by the way is not some semi skilled ... picked up at builders or on the street corner ... this is a property run by a property management group using a registered electrical company ... issuing COC's

I was called out because my customer move into this property ... the earth leakage was tripping ... this is what I found ... the bare earth connected to a piece of red wire connected to the mcb ... with red tape wrapped around it.

I dont blame the semi skilled dumped on site ... I blame the person/people who are playing all day while their teams are working on site with no supervision ... it boils down to bad management or should or should I say the lack of it.

[Derlyn]

Google

Thanks. My garden boy uploaded it, so don't take it too seriously.

[ians]

These pics are the top row of the same DB in the pic below ... would you be happy adding a supplementary certificate to this Initial certificate ? I knw we are talking about no original COC ... does it help getting an original.

As a customer ... what do you do ... trust the electrical industry to test and issue a COC ... who do you trust ... DOL ... AIA ... ECA ... ECB or any other ass. ?

Then you have the insurance industry ... let me rather just leave it right here ... anyone who tried to claim will know why.

I am tired of being the Ahole in the industry ... the one who use to waste time reporting ... sits in meeting so that people cant baffle customers with bullshyte ... its about time whoever is the big chief of the electrical industry grows a set of balls and actually starts cleaning up the mess

[ians]

Derek ... I am not joking ... I went to google ... I typed in what I was looking for ... copied and pasted it here. I couldnt even tell you which site I got it ... I dont take note where I get the info ... maybe I should with all the new rules and laws ... it could get me into trouble.

Thanks. My garden boy uploaded it, so don't take it too seriously.