Using the earth wire of the twin+E as alive conductor

[GCE]

That was an interesting discussion, I needed to clear up a few things.

Fact according to the ECA

- A light fitting mounted higher than 2.5 m (out of arms reach) does not have to be earthed.

Not sure how ECA got to that statement and would be interested as to who made that statement

SANS 10142-1 Ed3.1 Clause 6.12.3.2 (e) is pretty clear that all earth terminals shall have an earth - To make a statement that any fitting above 2,5m does not have to be earthed , in my opinion, means that person has not understood what he read. Feel free to correct me



6.12.3.1 The following conductive parts shall be earthed:
a) all exposed conductive parts of an installation other than those described
in 6.12.3.2;
NOTE Metal enclosures on PVC conduit should be earthed if they can become live
and can be touched.
b) all conductive cable sheaths and armouring, wireways and catenary wires;
c) the earthing terminal of a socket-outlet;
d) the secondary winding of a transformer if it is not a safety transformer;
e) earthing terminals of all permanently connected electrical equipment and
appliances;
f) conductive parts of discharge luminaires and equipment that need special
earthing arrangements; and
g) all class I equipment.

[GCE]

Would you regard using the bare earth wire in a twin+E cable illegal or dangerous?

While searching for another answer , I came across this part of the regulation which besides dangerous it is illegal according to 6.12.1.9

6.12.1.9 An earth continuity conductor shall not be used to carry any current
(other than fault currents). For equipment intended for permanent connection
and with an earth continuity conductor current exceeding 10 mA, reinforced
earth continuity conductors shall be designed as follows:

[Isetech]

Not sure how ECA got to that statement and would be interested as to who made that statement

I found the ECA contact number at the top of page 2 Test report (for use by ECA members only) of the latest COC I am busy auditing. I was told to contact my local ECA branch.

I wonder if Carte Blanche would investigate a story about non compliant COC's and how this whole process works.

[Isetech]

I am so tired of whining on this forum about this industry, maybe it is time to get a journalist to join me on a few site visits, make a few calls.

Maybe contact a few of these companies who sign over COC's without visiting the sites, or ones where their staff have installed PVC sockets and not extended the earth tail from the metal box and record the conversation.

Setup site cameras to look like normal CCTV with microphones call a few electrical contractors, and check the ones which leave staff on site, check their qualifications compared to the type of work they are expected to perform on site.

Check isolation procedures are followed correctly.

Request the documentation for the approved materials delivered to site.

Check the signature on the COC compared to the person who carries out the inspection report on site.

Maybe contact the DOL, the AIA, ECA,ECB and Investigate a few of these non complaint COC's and how they tackle these issues and what measures they have in place to prevent these issues from happening.

Do random checks on COC's issued in the past 6 months to see how many pass the document stage.

Take a non compliant COC and follow the procedure the customer is required to follow and get a first hand experience what they go through when a problem or non compliance is identified.

This could be quite a story, instead of picking on the little guy like they did last time, this time just do random interviews with ALL parties involved in the elctrical industry. Randomly record calls.

This could shake up this industry, and maybe steer it in the right direction.

[Dave A]

Fact according to the ECA

- A light fitting mounted higher than 2.5 m (out of arms reach) does not have to be earthed.

It is statements like this that trouble me.

Was it also pointed out that if there is an earth terminal, it must be connected?
And who at the ECA would have said such a thing?

Every time the issue has ever come up at the ECA SA that has crossed my desk, or at a meeting that I have attended, the emphasis has been just what GCE has pointed to - that the "out of arms reach" is not an exemption from the earthing requirements of 6.12.3.1.

My experience is the drive at the ECA SA is the very opposite of what you have suggested here.

[Dylboy]

For downlights there is not always an earth terminal depending on what GU10 fitting you use. So then the earthing of the earth terminal is not valid as there is no earth terminal.

The issues is often with downlights almost always

Sent from my CPH2197 using Tapatalk

[Derlyn]

If you buy a 220 Volt downlight holder there IS an earthing terminal.

The one's without an earthing terminal were made for 12V use.

[Derlyn]

If someone says it's out of arm's reach, therefore doesn't need to be earthed ........... just ask them if the geyser in the attic is also out of arm's reach. End of discussion.

[Derlyn]

If someone has a query regarding a coc that has been issued, surely the first port of call would be the electrician who issued same.

His particulars are on the coc.

[Isetech]

It is statements like this that trouble me.

Was it also pointed out that if there is an earth terminal, it must be connected?
And who at the ECA would have said such a thing?

Every time the issue has ever come up at the ECA SA that has crossed my desk, or at a meeting that I have attended, the emphasis has been just what GCE has pointed to - that the "out of arms reach" is not an exemption from the earthing requirements of 6.12.3.1.

My experience is the drive at the ECA SA is the very opposite of what you have suggested here.

It also troubles me.

I call the number on the ECA logo at the top of page 2, the same number the public or anyone enquiring about the COC.

[Isetech]

What is even more concerning is the false sense of safety, people think having a COC for their property would create a safer environment. With a 100 % fail rate on COC's audits just in my little operation, just imagine how bad it is in reality .