Registered contractors and the green card

[Isetech]

It is amassing how quickly these associations and authorities and new requirements suddenly pop up.

If I need an engineer to design and sign off a solar installation, a registered contractor with a licensed IE or MIE to carry out the work and sign it off, why would I need a green card?

I have been installing generators since 2008 and beyond, but just on a larger scale since load shedding.

I have been installing massive UPS systems since year dot and in the past 5 years installed many inverters with batteries.

I smell a money making racket.

I must employ a kid with a 5 day course to show me how to do an electrical installation, really. Surely you are not falling for this bullshyte.

Lets look a little past all this chaos going, load shedding and who is set to make billions out of renewable energy, lets look at the shortages of equipment, lets follow the headline media, lets try open our eyes.

I hear people are being conned into doing courses to be approved for over R10k.

Come on people are we really going to fall for this hook line and sinker ?

[Isetech]

By the way anyone need a green card, I can print them for R20 , in realty they are not even worth that much.

I have red card with a DOL stamp of approval, I believe it trumps all cards

Do you get a DOL stamp on the back of a green card, if not why should it even be considered?

[Isetech]

My next question is why are they allowing people to complete these courses without the correct electrical qualifications or registrations, know they are not allowed to work on electrical installations, especially high voltage DC ?

https://www.pvgreencard.co.za/about/sapvia/

[Dylboy]

I agree 100%, I know an installer of solar and backup who is making a killing but he is not even an electrician.....

How can uncle Cyril say let's do solar but the laws are not in place or policing...



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[Isetech]

I agree 100%, I know an installer of solar and backup who is making a killing but he is not even an electrician.....

How can uncle Cyril say let's do solar but the laws are not in place or policing...



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Its a joke, another money making racket to rip off the public, at the end of the day they are the suckers who always loose.

[Isetech]

For the record I have a few different colour cards. Its not that I disagree with improved staff training and safety education, but this whole solar story is out of control.

I have a blue card for working on the Train DC overhead lines( 3.3kv and 6.6 KV)

A green card for working on our local metro system (230/400/11 KV).

A yellow card to say I am a qualified IE.

A red card to say I am an MIE.

I even have a white blue and yellow card, indicating that I am registered with Eskom.

Lanyards full of Cards from safety induction courses to work on sites like Alusaf, RBM, SAPPI, Mondi and it goes on and on and on.

I also have a 140 page CV which includes over 100 pages of certificates for courses I have completed, from business administration, estimating and tendering, PLC's, alarm systems, CCTV, networks, if it has something to do with any line of work I do, I have a certificate or card or license. For example I do woodworking as a hobby, I have a file with all the training courses and certificates for the machines in my workshop.

So what is my point, I dont have a problem with people offering additional training for people in any field, but get your industry sorted out and make sure you tow the line.

If you going to offer training for people in the industry make sure the person has the relevant qualification before you take their money and offer certification not worth the paper its printed on.

You know the industry has really falling into a pit, when people are opening breaking the law and requesting inspectors to sign over installations they wired up themselves or had an unqualified "green card installer" or apparently there is lot of training and certifications being offered by another association.

By the way, the registered electrical contractors does not have to be a member of the ECA or ECB or SAPVIA or SAREC or AFSIA or SEIA or any of the other 500 associations popped up in the past 6 months.

The only valid registration is the DOL, which seems to be ill equipped to handle the industry it is responsible to manage.

Once again who looses, not us nor the boards, councils or associations popping up, we all doing them with a smile, yip the public.

It is about time someone stood up and protected the public from all the vultures, I do believe those people are the department of labour.

[Isetech]

I just dont get why I must now fork out R20K for a silly green card to fit a couple panels on the roof of a building, considering I have been installing generators large UPS systems since I started my business over 30 years ago. Installing inverters and batteries for past 5 years, now suddenly I am no longer qualified because someone saw the lop hole.

Suddenly solar becomes popular, I feel like a female dog on heat with everyone suddenly now wanting a piece expecting a piece of the action.

The worse part is there is no control over who actually attends the training, you can walk off the street sign up and bend over and they take your money.

No public awareness programs in place, the public are clueless as to who is suppose to do the job, not even the electrical industry know who is actually suppose to do the job, suddenly one of the associations released an article doing the rounds informing people that you have to be a registered contractor.

At least if this green card was recognised by the DOL and part of the SANS regs, then some sort of organised procedure should follow, depending on your level of expertise there should be some formal training offered. It just seems to me like it a free for all.

[Derlyn]

One question.

Must an IE or MIE possess a green card in order to do solar installations ?

[GCE]

One question.

Must an IE or MIE possess a green card in order to do solar installations ?

Short answer NO

The Green Card is not a recognized statutory qualification
Have attached a link to an article

https://ecasa.co.za/technical/pv-installers-must-be-electrical-contractors/?fbclid=IwAR0KWPoZwgwOYBmO-F8LqfRiQXMTdEl7m_riTmtADeg2ra7xBqnRr21H8V0

[Isetech]

Short answer NO

The Green Card is not a recognized statutory qualification
Have attached a link to an article

https://ecasa.co.za/technical/pv-ins...a7xBqnRr21H8V0

A few questions:

Do the training centres control who can register for a green card?

Can I get a green card without being a qualified electrician?

IF you are a registered electrical contractor and a registered IE or MIE, do you have to obtain a green card or any other form of qualification to sign off solar installations?

If an IE or MIE signs off a solar installation will it be covered by insurance companies ?

Can Estate managers or other property management groups refuse an IE or MIE access to a property to install and sign off a solar installation if they do not have a green card or other form of qualification?

Talking to other electrical contractors, someone mentioned that they had completed a 3 days course, a waste of time and money (being electrician most the stuff he already knew) and other who have done course but will "not" be sending staff on the courses. One was told he has to now spend another R15k to do another course.

We need the facts, not hear say this and hear say that, Its about time the people responsible for the industry rules and regs, step up and create some form of public awareness. Create a data sheet with the facts.

Make sure you understand what it is that you are paying for, is it a sales pitch for a specific product or a training course to:

Educate you on design, how measure sun hours and radiance etc etc etc , or

Rules and regulations, or

Practical installation of specific products and installation procedure, or

How to carry out load profiles and equipment required, including types of loads and the effect they have on the system, or

the difference between the inverters, grid tied and off grid, or

Basic information about the capabilities of the inverter, like the max feedback current capabilities, or

Earthing, grounding and bonding requirements for the panels, the supports, inverter AC and DC requirements, or

Neutral earth bonding for the different types of inverters, when it should be permanent or used with a relay/contactor, the dangers of equipment failure and lack of monitoring or indication, or

Isolation, documentation, labelling and commission procedure with the user and how other people like the fireman can isolate "in case of an emergency", we all know that lithium batteries are extremely dangerous and not something you can just pick up anything and spray it.

This is just a few things I can think of, off the top of my head, I am sure there are many more.

I get my back up when someone tells me I am not suitable trained or experienced to do my job, then I contact a training centre and get moved from pillar to post because the very people who are going to charge me R20k, are the same people who going to train me, for a card which is not even recognised by the DOL , cant answer these simple questions, really. If you going charge me to teach me something at least make sure the person has the skills and experience

Once again the only people getting the short end of the stick "AGAIN", the public, bend over suckers we coming to get you, bond those houses, what's another R150 000 for the next 25 years

Its about time someone takes note of all the people offering to sign off installations which are already completed that had no part of from start to finish.

People are opening displaying illegal installations, thank goodness I dont work for the DOL or freelance to insurance companies

Public awareness and education is what is needed.

[Isetech]

I ask myself this question, if I am already qualified and experienced in AC and DC installations, why would I need to do training for a green card or any other certification?

If someone said that I have to do a 1 day course to understand the basics of solar PV panel design basics installation. I might still disagree because I have already spent 300 hours watching training videos for Victron equipment.

Do I believe the green card is a money making racket, in some cases yes. From people who have done the courses, the feedback I have received is that a lot of the material we already know.

So what do I think we should do about it ? I believe whoever is responsible for making the rules and regs should stand up and do their job, set out guidelines and update the SANS book to include solar PV and not make another separate COC like electric fences.

I believe training is good for any industry and we as single phase testers, installation electricians and MIE's should be required to collect credits for training. Which would make sure that everyone is up to date with the regulations and amendments to the regs.

[Dylboy]

I agree on the PV green card training.

I too watched those Victron videos (albeit not all as well life and a kid take a lot of time haha) but I am also getting on site training with a certified victron installer (he is on their website) so I am getting full round trianing and I gautentee the green card course people would not give me better trianing.

But we do need some industry standard for trianing and I like the CPD idea as it can be self tought.

Big issue is anyone can buy panels and the likes to do PV, even a DIY camper person.

So I very good way to sort a lot of this but is impossible is to only sell to certified persons who can install....

Same goes for fully built DB's at builders...

But all that is a different conversation.



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[Isetech]

Everyone is going on about green cards and training, hundreds of installations are being done everyday and I havent heard of any fires or deaths.

They are so simple they are done DIY by the owners, so what is all the fuss about?

[Isetech]

There is no control over the electrical industry due to a lack of skills and manpower, who would take on the responsibility of policing the solar industry?

[Dylboy]

100% agree... It's a cowboy world at the moment for sure....



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