Issuing a COC for a property with solar and an invalid COC

[Isetech]

This is going to be interesting.

We have a request to issue a COC for a property being sold.

The property has a COC which was issued when the customer purchased the property, after reviewing it and doing a quick visual inspection, the COC is invalid (6 years old) not just because it is older than 2 years, the visual inspection identified quite a few code violations.

To complicate things, the property has had a solar system installed, many years ago (about 4 years). No COC was issued at the time of installation and the system is not registered.

The plan is to carry out an inspection report of the entire property including the solar system, identify any code violations and create a report with a quote to repair.

How would you tackle this ?

Throw in the towel and rather just walk away ?

Just do what many people do, fill out a COC and send a bill for R1500.00, chances are nobody will even know the COC is invalid.

Do the right thing and carry out an inspection report on the building, switch the bypass switch to grid and exclude the solar installation (because in theory you cant issue a COC for the solar because your didn't do it)

Take on the full responsibility and carry out a full inspection report including the solar PV, because eventually all solar installations will be older than 2 years and if the property is sold you will need to address the problem.

You thought life as a sparky was simple

[Isetech]

That saying lead by example, my plan is to do it right and share it so that we can take one step closer to sorting out this industry.

There is an invalid COC and the last test was done more than 6 years ago.

Step 1

Create a job no. and open a test report/COC.

This is where the wheels normally fall off, people think the cost to do the test report includes issuing the COC, we need to start by getting this right.

A COC is only issued once the test report is completed and no code violations are identified.

In my case there is a long list of code violations. The test report will be completed and list of the code violation with reference to the SANS regs will be attached to the quote.

An invoice will be submitted for the test report which must be paid before the list is handed over (due to bad debts created thanks to the lack of public awareness).

[Isetech]

Step 2

A site visit which will include creating sketches of the property and buildings, identifying all the electrical components and photos of any code violations. This will take at least half the day, before we even start the testing.

[Isetech]

We start by printing out a copy of the COC (annexure 1)/test report for scribbling on so that there are no mistakes ( the document is invalid is there is a mistake... you cannot correct and initial)

Done forget to print out additional test reports in case there are more than 1 DB.

Top left Test report for DB/supply ... Main Db (additional DB's will require additional test reports)

Top right fill in the COC number and below the date of issue.

Then you take a bright colour highlighter and draw a line through note 1 IN TERMS OF SOUTH AFRICAN LEGISLATION, THE USER OR LESSOR IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY OF THE ELCTRICAL INSTALLTION .

Section 1 - Location

Physical address: The dome.
Name of building : Truman bubble

Section 2 - Installation

(tick) Permanent

Type of elctrical supply system - This will depend on your location. TN-S in our part of town.

Voltage: This site is 230 VAC

Number of phases: (tick) one

Phase rotation: clockwise

Frequency: 50 HZ

Main switch type: (tick) Switch disconnector (on load isolator)

Number of poles: 2 (do you put 1 or 2 poles for a single phase installations) ?

Current rating: 60 Amps

A short - circuit/withstand rating: 2.5 ka (standard from our council on domestic installations)

Rated earth leakage tripping current: (tick) 30 mA

Is surge protection installed: no

Is lightning protection installed: no

Is alternate power installed: yes (this needs to be discussed in more detail due to the solar system and maybe a generator)

Is any part of the installation a specialized electrical installation: no

Is any part of the installation at a voltage higher than 1 KV : no

To be continued...

[Isetech]

Section 3 - Description of the installation covered by this report.

This is a section which should be discussed in great detail. I see way to many test report with absolute junk written in this section.

[Isetech]

Before we go into more details in section 3, I need to go back a few steps.

For this example we have Sub DB's x 4, a pool DB, a gate DB and an outbuilding with both grid and inverter backup fed from a split sub DB.

The pool DB feeds other stuff (you thought I would make the example simple ), so a supplementary test report is required.

The gate DB also feeds other stuff, so it also requires a supplementary test report.

The outbuilding is fed from the split sub DB, to another split DB, which has double pole combo breakers on the inverter plug circuit, the plug and light circuit are fed via a double pole combo breaker.

[Isetech]

This is why I keep going on about isolation procedures, when you add backup power to a property, it is so important to keep records of everything, to create sketches and log as much about the site as possible.

I also create XL spreadsheet with all the information about the site from the meter road to the last DB in the circuit. the data includes the circuit, the breaker, cable size, the location of each item and even the load of the appliance connected to the socket outlet.

When the COC is issued it has a 25 pages of documents attached.

There is nothing worse than arriving on site and there is not even a single line diagram, throw in a battery bank boiling and degassing or a fire and you have proper chaos.

[Isetech]

I need to take a step back and consider lightning and surge protection, even though the location may not require it, because there is a solar installation linked to the electrical installation, lightning and surge protection will need to be checked and the device test report (page 303) will attached to the either the original COC or the supplementary COC or both.


We have already taken note of Annex Q and identified the area is a low risk area.

"Annex Q (informative)
A simplified risk assessment method to determine surge
protection requirements"


Now I ask the question will class II DC surge protection in the combiner box be adequate for this installation ?

I thought I would be finished by lunch time, I haven't even left the office yet, still busy putting the test reports together, fortunately I have already have XL spreadsheet setup to collect all the data, so it is just a matter of filling in the blocks.

[Dylboy]

This is brilliant!

How you do a test report is how I want to but 100% of the time the client says not gonna happen as all that will take me 3 or 4 days... Not all on site but doing the reports.


There is so much wrong on these solar things and even though you may have not done it you will take responsibility... Same as you didn't build the house back in the day but you still then take responsibility.

I tend to do inspection and maybe tests, send quote for repairs and then go have lunch and never hear from them but I made my bucks by making them pay first before I step foot on site...

When you tell someone there house they loved is not safe they don't like it, or saying you have to pay to get the house sold where they probably took a knock does not go well.

But I did digress of topic.

This is a great thread.

At the end of the day you need to satisfy you happy and get paid.

And I think doing line drawings of the property should be done, like in the electric fence CoC.

Sent from my CPH2197 using Tapatalk

[Derlyn]

And to think one needs to issue a COC everytime you change a burn't plug socket outlet.

[Isetech]

And to think one needs to issue a COC everytime you change a burn't plug socket outlet.

You do not need to issue a COC when replacing components.

The only time you would need to issue a COC is if you move the location of the socket outlet which is burnt.

[Isetech]

This is brilliant!

How you do a test report is how I want to but 100% of the time the client says not gonna happen as all that will take me 3 or 4 days... Not all on site but doing the reports.


There is so much wrong on these solar things and even though you may have not done it you will take responsibility... Same as you didn't build the house back in the day but you still then take responsibility.

I tend to do inspection and maybe tests, send quote for repairs and then go have lunch and never hear from them but I made my bucks by making them pay first before I step foot on site...

When you tell someone there house they loved is not safe they don't like it, or saying you have to pay to get the house sold where they probably took a knock does not go well.

But I did digress of topic.

This is a great thread.

At the end of the day you need to satisfy you happy and get paid.

And I think doing line drawings of the property should be done, like in the electric fence CoC.

Sent from my CPH2197 using Tapatalk

You need to get smart, dont focus on COC's for seller, rather target the buyers just before the transfer or once they have moved in or people who want the house safe for the sake of their family . In most cases the buyer will give you the good ahead to fix all the code violation without wasting time trying to sue the seller or the person who issued the COC, I talk from experience and lots of it.

Sellers want the cheapest method to issue a COC and dont care if some fool sitting in his office sends an unskilled labourer to do the test and make it look like they know what they are doing. They know that once the transfer papers are done and the money is ready to transfer, the idiot who issued the COC becomes liable for the electrical installation.

Its a numbers, you are more likely to get away with an illegal COC, than be prosecuted, I am yet to hear of a prosecution, lots of blah blah blah and threats, but have you ever heard of a conviction.

99.9% of the buyers who get ripped off by an invalid COC when purchasing a property will do one of 2 things, either request that you repair the code violations for their family safety or indicate that they have a COC, valid or not because it doesn't matter the property will still be covered by insurance.

I have learnt 2 things about buying property and COC's -

1/ Get your customer to let you check the property just before they sign the transfer papers.

2/ Meet your customer on site the day the estate agent hand overs the site, I have watched estate agent cringe in embarrassment as we identify code violation for a the property their preferred inspectors have passed

One of the most common excuses, "we didn't have access to that part of the building" then you should have written a note in the comment section identifying all the parts of the property which you dint have access, which by way makes the COC invalid.

[Isetech]

A standard 3 bedroom house should not take less than 4 -5 hours to carry out a proper test report, including all the documentation and attached notes, code violation etc.

If you only charge R650 per hour it would cost around R3250.00.

I have walked around with people who have done test reports (without the person knowing who I am or my qualifications) and received quotes from inspectors who have tested properties and offered quotes to bring the property up to standard. It seems that a quick scan is done, then a massive quote to cover all the stuff not tested and unforeseen repairs are included.

I am getting more and more requests to consult on the customers behalf, people are getting tired of being ripped off by various industries.

[Isetech]

Back to the task at hand...

The good ol days of basic electrical installations with a couple light points, a plug in each room, a stove and geyser and a 12 way DB with a ripple relay for load shedding (yes there was load shedding 50 years ago and wont be going away anytime soon) are like fax machines, video rental stores and telephone exchanges, a thing of the past.

By now it should be law that every property has a document holder with "all" the relevant information for the property. Which includes a basic layout of the property, identifying equipment location, at least single line diagrams, isolation points for electrical, gas, backup power, including COC's for the all the equipment installed on site.

All the COC's for the property should be accessible online.

For example - If I have to work at the dome in the Trumann bubble at no 7, I should be able to verify the property has a COC and is safe to work, so that I am not put in a position where the customer request I issue a COC for the work I carry out, yet there is no original COC. If that is the case and there is no original COC, you not getting an original or supplementary from me, you can jump up and down and scream AIA or DOL till the cows come home. IF YOU CANNOT PROVIDE AN ORIGINAL COC, DONT EXPECT ONE FROM ME,

Get your property in order and take responsibility as per the law (NOTE1 IN TERMS OF SOUTH AFRICAN LEGISLATION, THE USER OR LESSOR IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY OF THE ELCTRICAL INSTALLTION) It is not the contractors responsibility.

[Derlyn]

Who has the authority to declare a COC invalid ?