First ever legit COC

**Isetech** · 19-Apr-23, 06:10 AM

I can't say the same for the other COC I received this week, it going to cost the new poprerty owner a bunch of money to make the installtion safe never, mind legal.

These COC/test reports are joke a page

**Derlyn** · 19-Apr-23, 10:00 PM

Had to give a pass on a COC inspection today.

New PV system installed by one of the bigger local installers.
Seems like quite a kiff setup.

No COC supplied.

The fight started when the client phoned the installer inquiring about a COC.

I courteously greeted him and left.

**Isetech** · 27-Apr-23, 03:38 PM

Yip I have another one not worth the paper it is printed on, and no I havent even been to site yet

What is wrong with this one,

The COC was issued by a member of an assocation, this is the part that really concerns me, if it was us so called pirate operators, then I could understand.

1/ Annexure 1 initial COC.

Declaration by electrical contractor.

KZN-XXXX

Date of registration: 2019-08-16

Expiry date : 2022-08-16

Test report date of issue : 2023-01-224

Section 4

Continuity of bonding - compliant ... no tick

Ressitance of earth continuity conductor at all points of consumption ... no tick

Insulation resistance - 0.2 M/ohm

Would this be a pass or fail ?

Is this a legal document and should it be treated as such, or do we just laugh smile and bill the new property owner to retest and submit a legit COC?

Do I bill my customer for the time, report the member

Or do we make an example of this person and go full hog on this one and post the COC on this platform, go to site and do a test report and make the public aware of how the elctrical industry is ripping them off ?

**Isetech** · 27-Apr-23, 03:46 PM

I have another concern.

If you do a test report in a building, can you exclude DB boards which are attached to the building, wired in to the main DB for a tenant.

Do you exculde all those non complaint components that belong to the tenant ?

Do you report the the non compliant components and add a note to the COC ?

What happens if the building catches on fire and your COC is the last COC issued, but oyu exclude all the components which ar enon compiant?

This is a tricky one.

**Derlyn** · 27-Apr-23, 06:39 PM

You mentioned that the person who issuid the coc is a member of an association.

I know that what I'm about to say is not gonna go down well with some people, but so be it.

Should there be an issue with a coc, who does the association represent ? It's member, of course.

I have in the past been requested to join certain organisations and when I enquired what the benefits would be for my clients should I join, I was met with a deadly silence.

**Dave A** · 28-Apr-23, 07:31 AM

Send it to the association. I know that the ECA (SA) does deal with these submissions/complaints. With varying results, perhaps - but they are certainly properly engaged.

Originally posted by Derlyn

I have in the past been requested to join certain organisations and when I enquired what the benefits would be for my clients should I join, I was met with a deadly silence.

R15 000 workmanship guarantee?
(for one).

**Derlyn** · 28-Apr-23, 08:39 AM

Morning Dave

Please explain.
Does that benefit my client and how ?

**GCE** · 28-Apr-23, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by Derlyn

You mentioned that the person who issuid the coc is a member of an association.

I know that what I'm about to say is not gonna go down well with some people, but so be it.

Should there be an issue with a coc, who does the association represent ? It's member, of course.

The association, I assume being ECA, does not cover for the member if he has made a mistake .
I belong and am actively involved with some of the calls that come through - If the member is at fault we challenge him on it and force him to repair .
If the owner is wrong we will back ourselves up with the regulation.
I know the East London guys on the committee deal with complaints in the same manner .

There has been the odd occasion, and I talk odd over the past 20 years, where the member has refused to repair or the fall out between member and owner has been irreparable where we have contracted another member to carry out the repairs under the workmanship guarantee mentioned by Dave
That workmanship guarantee is a selling point to owners to use an ECA member has they have recourse that is easily accessed vs going the DOEL and AIA route .

As a member I do not want the ECA to be seen to be covering for members otherwise they may paint me with the same brush.
You must remember that the Association is controlled by members for the members - We are not going to cover for one member to the detriment of the rest

I have in the past been requested to join certain organizations and when I enquired what the benefits would be for my clients should I join, I was met with a deadly silence.

I am surprised - They should have mentioned the guarantee of workmanship scheme , the recourse if your work is shoddy , that you as a member have access to ongoing training to make sure that you are on top of your game.
Unfortunately you can " lead the horse to the water but can't make it drink "

This is where peer review comes into play, and we have expelled members who continue to have complaints laid against them and not agreed to upskill themselves

**Isetech** · 28-Apr-23, 10:00 AM

They do contact the member and make arrangements for the member to return to the site so that they can fix the non compliant issues as they have done on each occassion the members have been reported.

My concern is that the public are under the impression that they using a company which has the guidance of a technical support team, training and everything else needed to make sure their members do it right the first time everytime, yet littlerally every COC document sent to me is not even filled out correctly

.

Would you say the information attached below is a pass, or should I say would you accept the COC with the informations attached ?

I dont know if you noticed in the last post, the members DOL registration expired on the 08/22 and they are still issuing COC's in 2023.

For the record, I dont really care what the rest of the members are doing and if their COC's are valid or not, however as soon as the COC arrives on my desk and it is one of my customers, then if affects my business and all work on the property going forward.

Generally it means more money for me because the customer will request that I make it right.

In some case they dont want to get it sorted out, and that people, is when it affects my bussiness, why because the customer beleives that so long as they have a COC, vailid or not they have a right to an insurance claim, , that dodgy COC and electrical installation with all the non compliant issues become my problem when the customer requests a new COC to sell the property. That is where the fights starts.

The customer will request a new COC for the property, and I will attach the email informing the customer of the non compliant COC and items listed, which were never repaired.

Try get a contractor back after 5 years to sort it out, thats where the real fight starts.

the question is what are we going to do about these non compliant COC's ?

What measures are we going to put in place and enforce to ensure the public are not getting tipped off ?

The sad part is that this has been going on since back in the days of Chris Greagor and Brian Bilton, nothing has changed or improved.

I am here to identify a serious problem in the electrical industry, which makes a so called legal document worthless.

Just like you cant scratch out and make changes on the document, you cant leave out information or fill in spaces wit the incorrect information.

Originally posted by Dave A

Send it to the association. I know that the ECA (SA) does deal with these submissions/complaints. With varying results, perhaps - but they are certainly properly engaged.

R15 000 workmanship guarantee?
(for one).

**Derlyn** · 28-Apr-23, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by GCE

The association, I assume being ECA, does not cover for the member if he has made a mistake .
I belong and am actively involved with some of the calls that come through - If the member is at fault we challenge him on it and force him to repair .
If the owner is wrong we will back ourselves up with the regulation.
I know the East London guys on the committee deal with complaints in the same manner .

There has been the odd occasion, and I talk odd over the past 20 years, where the member has refused to repair or the fall out between member and owner has been irreparable where we have contracted another member to carry out the repairs under the workmanship guarantee mentioned by Dave
That workmanship guarantee is a selling point to owners to use an ECA member has they have recourse that is easily accessed vs going the DOEL and AIA route .

As a member I do not want the ECA to be seen to be covering for members otherwise they may paint me with the same brush.
You must remember that the Association is controlled by members for the members - We are not going to cover for one member to the detriment of the rest

I am surprised - They should have mentioned the guarantee of workmanship scheme , the recourse if your work is shoddy , that you as a member have access to ongoing training to make sure that you are on top of your game.
Unfortunately you can " lead the horse to the water but can't make it drink "

This is where peer review comes into play, and we have expelled members who continue to have complaints laid against them and not agreed to upskill themselves

Good morning GCE

Thanks for that.

BTW it was not the ECA that I was referring to earlier.
It was another organization who contacted me telephonically and who couldn't answer my questions.

Have a great day.

**Isetech** · 28-Apr-23, 11:39 AM

Can an electrical contractor continue to issue COC's if their DOL registration has expired and you havent made any attempt to renew the registration ?

If you are registered with the DOL, but your registration has expired and you havent been able to get the DOL to process your renewal, can you continue to issue COC's?

Considering there have been comments about the DOL not processing the registrations in time, can the contractor continue to issue COC's "pending" registration renewal ?

**Isetech** · 28-Apr-23, 11:43 AM

How legal is a COC/test report, or should I say is it a crimminal offence to issue a non compliant COC ?

**Isetech** · 28-Apr-23, 11:51 AM

Corrected........

For those who dont know, DOL registration is 1 year or 3 years, not 5 years.

**GCE** · 28-Apr-23, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by Isetech

For those who dont know, the registration period is 5 years.

If you registered in 16/08/2019, the registration actually expires on the "16/08/2023" not on the "16/08/2022"

The contractor is still registered until 08/23, the information on the COC is incorrect.

I am not aware of a 5 year registration period - As far as I know it is a mx of 3 years

If you have not renewed then you cannot be a contractor and therefore cannot issue COC- May be a bit of leeway if you can prove that you have paid and submitted in time

Mine expired this year and I renewed in under a week

First ever legit COC

First ever legit COC

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