SA programmers and web coders too expensive

[Seagyn Davis]

I apologize, I didnt read the full thread - so I could just sound like a parrot. I was referring to the first website. I will read through it a bit later and post again if there are any differences.

[Dave A]

Aah. Autobodyratings.

[Konrad]

Sorry to dig this thread up again.

I have been developing a site based on Rentacoder / Elance etc for the last year (don't ask)

Through many probs and changes to coders we have gotten to the point where we are ready (phew!! talk about debugging and beta testing)

The true proverb is that you buy cheap you buy twice (or thrice in my case)

During this time we thought that there would not be a market for a local site such as rentacoder.

Subsequently we have modified the code to focus on different market (products versus coders)

Having read the thread, it has raised the original idea again of including freelance services into the site again. (code is al still there)

From your perspective, do you think it would be beneficial to include these services in the site?

From the coders, would it help you?

From business, would it help you having some one local that you could find?

Your feedback would be appreciated

thanks

Konrad

[daveob]

Hi Konrad

To be very honest with you, I usually post each of my projects on RentAcoder, oDesk and GetAfreelancer all at the same time, unless I am working with a coder I have used before. This gives me a greater range of coders to choose from. If another decent site ( like yours ) enters the market, I would probably post there as well.

My point -- I have no loyalty to any specific geographic region of coders, and I have no intention of buying local if I can get a better deal or more experienced coder elsewhere - as a buyer I go for the best bid ( not always the cheapest ).

To date I have spent in excess of some R25k on the 3 coder sites that I use over the last 2 years, on a range of over 100 different projects. These range from really small project ( 2 lines of php code ) to large projects in C++, VB, etc. So far I have not even received a single bid from a South African based coder, so can't comment on their abilities. This does, however, show that there is a huge pool of overseas coders out there looking for work.

Finally, with Skype and the like, I don't see any special benefit in having a local coder doing my work.

Probably not the reply you wanted to hear, but that just my opinion. Any other code buyers out there wanting to comment ?

[kernel32]

Konrad: From a developer's point of view, the site would be wonderful. I have consulted with a view friends and colleagues, and all agree that we need a local site to offer our services on. I'm sure that all these guys would sign up to your site.

From a buyer's point of view, it's still cheaper to get the work done overseas. Those developers have lots of people working together to help reduce the overall price. They will do it much faster than the local guys too. However, you still get loads of companies that only use local people when it comes to outsourcing development.

Please keep us updated on a ETA for the website to go live.

[Konrad]

Hi Daveob and Kernel32,

thanks for the replies.

Daveob, another one for you is elance.com, just for reference. I find that most of the "bigger" offshore companies/individuals are registered on just about all these sites.

I have also used these sites to get where I am today. As I mentioned before, there is lots of milk, but finding the cream is hard sometimes. Many of the quick/cheap developers I have used have left something to be desired when trying to get more complex/stable code.

This has mostly been tackled in this thread re time zones and perceived understanding of language/documentation during communications.

Currently the bulk of my "real" development has come out of Canada, with help from Poland. Previously it was out of India. (buy cheap...) This is in no way and indictment on the skills in India, it was probably my naivety when starting this project.

Having previously been part of a team developing software (purely priority queuing development requests, not actually coding) for a local company, I understand the need for having in house development teams for specific projects (sending development teams to site to "fix/customise" code in live environments).

To Kernel32, my biggest saviour when starting this project was the use of Escrow payments. This ensured that I was covered to some extent. We built this into our system.

Our problem currently is that we are not sure that this would be accepted locally by coders/businesses as well as the arbitration process should there be a dispute. (ideally there would an independent body to resolve this so there would be absolutely no biases from our side)

There are some escrow payment companies popping up in SA but there fees are quite steep (3 + 3 % off the top of my head)

In addition we are not sure what the legal ramifications are if we were to do this as we dropped that idea some time ago.

Since there is no local option to compare and receive tenders from locally based developers and this thread, we are considering the option again. It would only take us about two days to configure the system to have a category "programming" with the various sub categories below.

Sorry for going off topic, just trying to get a feel if this would be accepted locally considering the "big boys" out there.

Thanks

Konrad

[Wineou]

No offence boet, but I bet you avoid buying your takkies from Nike for the very same reason that you prefer to look offshore for hungry and grateful coders. In any case it looks like $65 will be worth about R12K soon enough.

[daveob]

Hi Konrad

Can we have a link to your existing system site please ?

[Konrad]

Hi Daveop,

Just taken site out of maintenance mode and posted to quite quotation requests.

Feel free to register and poke around. Please don't be too harsh, still fiddling a bit with graphics and text.

Currently it is set up as a product RFP vs Service RFP. As mentioned earlier, quick to include programming category.

Bit nervous, only had close associates and friends doing testing and feedback thus far.

Oh well, www.needaquote.co.za

[Konrad]

PS, www.autobodyratings.co.za, like it.

I was considering a review site 18 months ago due to shoddy service from many sectors. Just couldn't think of a way to monetize it.

[daveob]

autobodyratings was born after I got rear-ended by my panel beater.

I don't make anything from it ( nor does it cost me anything as I own the server anyway, except for annual domain name renewal fees ) and it's one of a few sites I have that are non-profit making.

btw - if you ( or in fact any forum member ) wants to advertise on the site, send me your image ( 129 px wide x 80 px deep ) and url to the autobodyratings.co.za contact address ( webmaster@... ) and I'll gladly accommodate as many as I can down the left side of the page.