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Surely you cannot have a 220Volt GU10 Lamp in one of those silly holder things fitted into a 12volt down light. Nearly every domestic(which I try and avoid) Test and inspect for the COC I find 220Volt GU10's in 12Volt fittings and usually the connection to the supply cable isn't enclosed, just a connector block. I'm bored of dealing with customers who do the "well its worked fine like that for ages" and get annoyed when I don't sign the COC because of this. The fitting says 12V and is not earthed therefore not, to my way of thinking, compliant, Right?
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I think the reason that at least some of the fittings aren't earthed is that they're supposedly double insulated to Class I standards and hence don't come manufactured with any terminal to connect the earths into. I agree a standard choc-block connector with 220v cabling should be in an enclosure. Similarly transformer terminations with missing covers or shrouds would be an issue as well._______________________________________________
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and does it help complaining or reporting it?Comment
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Nope - Bust my balls getting my license, don't sign unless its perfect. Don't usually sign existing work off only my own which I have done from start to finish, to much hassle sorting out other peoples F^%$ ups. They want a COC they are either going to get transformers and 12Volt lamps or get 220volt down lights put in.
Should have used a proper electrician in the first place.
People may learn one day its cheaper in the long run to do it right first time. If i here one more person say "well its worked fine like that for years" I'm going to zap them with my insulation resistance tester and explain that that shock just hurts and won't kill you but the one from your shitty wiring might.
Would you sign it off Murdock??? 220volt lamp in 12 volt fitting?? And why are wholesalers selling that kind of lamp holder? Surely that can't be right? (My local Voltex doesn't sell them any more except the ones with an earth tag, like anyone will bother to connect it).
No more domestics for me thanks.... The cowboys can keep em.Comment
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"Would you sign it off Murdock??? 220volt lamp in 12 volt fitting?? And why are wholesalers selling that kind of lamp holder? Surely that can't be right? (My local Voltex doesn't sell them any more except the ones with an earth tag, like anyone will bother to connect it)."
honesty...which i suppose i shouldnt be on a public forum...a couple of years ago i would have been were you are right now complaining about...but lately i have a new policy...if you cant beat and the powers that be dont want to improve the industry...join them...i can also do a coc in 15 minutes..and looking for the kind of issues you are finding...it hard to find because most times i dont climb in the roof anymore...i just look from the trap door with a torch and if it looks ok...to fill out the coc takes another 10 minute...that pretty much all you gona get for R950 i charge for a domestic installation...i have also standardised my coc to save money...all the info on all my cocs are exactly the same if they pass...i just fill in the address details...i pay my labourer to fill them in by the dozen...it saves me hours...until there is some improvement in the industry and there is some sort of policing introduced...why waste your time getting all worked up...i use to get all worked up and report stuff and waste time...now i go with the flow...put my blinkers on...and actually challenge any other electrical contractor...AIA...or dol memeber to take me to task with regards to a coc...i have filled out...come on i dare you....i have a list so long by the time the court gets back to me i would have retired.Comment
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murdock that post was so depressing i had to take a pill. i dont stress when i climb in a roof and see a big mess. i see dollar signs.
i try to do my work properly regardless of what others do.
regarding the 12 volt downlighter fittings with 230 volt lamps. its been discussed at length and i still dont know if its acceptable or not.
i dont install it like that,but if i find it with proper terminations,etc then i pass it. the 12 volt frame can be classed as double insulated.Comment
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Hopefully murdock's post 6 was mostly sarcasm
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We are so accustomed to it that we forget Murdock's closing line: "Disclaimer: Hmmmmm. I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I'm
not sure that what you heard is what I actually meant!"
As for double insulated 12V downlight frames, where on earth does that idea come from? If a 12V set is bought that comes with double insulated transformers, yes, the set would be double insulated because of the transformer insulation. Replace/remove the double insulated transformer and you lose the classification.
Or can someone please explain to me where the "double insulation" is when you have a metal ring with a spring on it?Comment
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dave please dont pull my sponsorship....
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That's why I said 'supposedly', as soon as the SLEV transformer is removed they are no longer ClassI.
The whole MR16 and GU10 configuration was ill thought out from the start. Firstly the lamps ought to have been different sizes or have a key moulded into them to prevent them from being used in the wrong fittings. Secondly the MR16 has the thin pins but is drawing 20 times the current that the same wattage GU10 lamp draws yet the GU has a far more substantial bayonette type fitting. Consequantly the MR16 is far more prone to failures of the ceramic lamp holder._______________________________________________
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[QUOTE
As for double insulated 12V downlight frames, where on earth does that idea come from? If a 12V set is bought that comes with double insulated transformers, yes, the set would be double insulated because of the transformer insulation. Replace/remove the double insulated transformer and you lose the classification.
Or can someone please explain to me where the "double insulation" is when you have a metal ring with a spring on it?[/QUOTE]
I have seen an adapter, which I don't like, that houses a shrouded connection block and a connector for an earth connection which also connects it own metal parts to the earth. This then inserts into the 12volt holder, loosely. I keep failing them and am not sure if they are legal.
This one with also has a method of attaching the 12volt holder via the springs
Are these legal?To make a mistake is human, to learn from that mistake is knowledge and knowledge is strength.Comment
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I'd have to say I think the top one is probably legal. I don't have a problem with the earth continuity via the screw you highlighted. As far as strain relief goes it looks like the connector top shroud provides at least some, strain relief on the lampholder side is usually provided by the internal crimp connection which has two crimped parts, one on the wire and one on the insulation (if you look closely at the lug on the earth you can see the type of crimp I'm talking about). The arrangement in the bottom photo looks a little dicey to me, I'm not convinced that the mechanical connection via the springs would provide good enough earth continuity onto the ring itself. To be honest, if they had SABSapproval stamped on them I'd probably give them both a pass._______________________________________________
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The top one is 12volt & the bottom one is 220volt. My concern with both is the too short, too thin heat-resistant wire on the lampholder.Comment
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