Lithium batteries in residential properties

[Isetech]

Can you install a 5 kwh lithium battery in a room inside your house?

Copied form the Sunsynk installer manual, it indicates they are designed for residential use, and no warnings attached to indicate they cannot be installed inside the property (within the fire walls of the house)

If there was an issue with regards to the safe location and storage, the NRS would have attached a notice warning the public about the dangers, considering anyone can buy and install these batteries anywhere.

Any other lithium batteries have any warnings?




BYD Battery

1.3.1. Brief Introduction
BYD is a lithium battery with an operating voltage range between 45.6~56.16V.

It is designed for residential energy storage applications and works together with a 48v battery hybrid inverter.


BYD is not suitable for supporting life-sustaining medical devices.


BYD has built-in BMS (Battery Management System), which can manage and monitor cells
information including voltage, current and temperature. Besides that, BMS can balance cells
charging to extend cycle life. BMS has protection functions including over-dis- charge, overcharge,
over-current and high/low temperature; the system can automatically manage charge
state, discharge state and balance state.

[Isetech]

Why are installers wasting money using a fuse as a disconnector, if they are not required and not suitable for on load disconnecting, considering the battery has more safety devices, which include overload, over charge and a long list of other protection.

Should one not use an onload switch disconnector, considering the only time you might need to disconnect the battery in case of emergency is if there is a fire.

Then one would ask why the device is mounted directly above the battery, it is about as stupid as fitting the isolator behind a chip fryer.

[Dylboy]

Hahaha I have wondered this as well with regards to the fuse isolator.

I don't know what it would cost for a DC on load isolator of 100Amos let alone 200A and more but I imagine it is huge.

A lot of this is people following what people are doing.

I have a fuse isolator but for off load isolation and testing.

The battery BMS system and inverter have a lot of safety within for that stuff.

If the battery is on fire it's not the cable to it it is the cells inside but I guess killing power would be good.



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[GCE]

Why are installers wasting money using a fuse as a disconnector, if they are not required and not suitable for on load disconnecting, considering the battery has more safety devices, which include overload, over charge and a long list of other protection.

Should one not use an onload switch disconnector, considering the only time you might need to disconnect the battery in case of emergency is if there is a fire.

Then one would ask why the device is mounted directly above the battery, it is about as stupid as fitting the isolator behind a chip fryer.

You need protection and isolation as per the regs 7.15.3
The batteries generally shutdown with electronics which I would not trust if I had to work on the terminals.
You also need to be careful that the isolator you use can handle Bi Directional current flow which is a problem with DC - Some C/Breakers can also not handle bi directional DC current.

Is the main reason that fuse disconnectors are used

7.15.3 Overcurrent protection
An overcurrent protective device shall be installed at both ends of the
conductor between the live terminals of the battery and the battery charger
and as close as practically possible to the terminals. For overcurrent
protection of other circuits, see 6.7.1.

6.7.1.1 Each phase conductor of an installation, live (unearthed) conductor of
an earthed d.c. system, and conductor in an unearthed d.c. installation shall
be protected against overload and short-circuit currents by one or more
protective device(s). Each protective device shall have a rated current that
does not exceed the lowest of the current-carrying capacities of any of the
conductors of the circuit and shall have a minimum short-circuit rating of
2,5 kA.
In a d.c. installation that has multiple sources of power, each source shall be
protected individually. Protective devices shall be located as closely as
possible to the source terminals, taking all other requirements (such as battery
rooms) into account.
NOTE 1 An overcurrent protective device may be a circuit-breaker that interrupts the
supply to all the phase conductors of a circuit.
NOTE 2 Protection against overload and short-circuit may be provided by separate
devices or by a single device.
NOTE 3 Unless specified elsewhere in this part of SANS 10142 for a particular
application, the protective device need not disconnect the neutral conductor.
NOTE 4 Where a control device (such as a home automation device) is installed, each
circuit that feeds from such device needs an overcurrent protective device if not
protected in the supply

[Isetech]

Can I install a lithium battery in my scullery next to my kitchen?

[Isetech]

IF lithium batteries are not allowed to be in the house, what about the 50 amp/hr of drop in batteries for alarm systems and backup power supplies with a 100 amp/hr battery for the CCTV and the 2 x 100 amp/hr lithium batteries feeding the 1200 watt mobile inverter. All probably installed in wooden cupboard packed with combustible materials.

I think the person who started this rumour about no lithium batteries in the house should release a statement on the official ECA website to clear it up, with the regulations related to the comments, just imagine what the comment has evolved into by now.

[Dave A]

I think the person who started this rumour about no lithium batteries in the house should release a statement on the official ECA website to clear it up, with the regulations related to the comments, just imagine what the comment has evolved into by now.

What person? What rumour?

To my mind the fumes of lead acid battery systems pose more of a hazard than a properly constructed LiFePo battery unit with a built-in BMS.
I would also be interested in hearing stats on confirmed cases of properly manufactured LiFePo units with BMS combusting.
Or are people just windy because of historical cell phone battery problems?

[Isetech]

What person? What rumour?

To my mind the fumes of lead acid battery systems pose more of a hazard than a properly constructed LiFePo battery unit with a built-in BMS.
I would also be interested in hearing stats on confirmed cases of properly manufactured LiFePo units with BMS combusting.
Or are people just windy because of historical cell phone battery problems?

There are comments on social media, that someone mentioned that you cannot install a lithium battery inside the house, it has to be outside the fire wall. Being shared on social media, with no support or relative data. Can we call it BS?

I ask the question again, this is for the people who supply lithium batteries in SA (which I would assume required NRS approval), can I install a lithium battery designed for residential applications with no warning or danger notices, sold directly to the public in my kitchen, yes or no.

The old battery storage regs were using the FLA batteries which give off hydrogen while charging.

Does anyone have new SANS 10400-T regs, maybe they have been updated since 20011 (before lithium lifepo4 were even a consideration for solar storage).

If these batteries a re so dangerous that they shouldnt be in the house, maybe someone should step in stop them being sold to the public without warning notices and some form of public awareness , have you watched how these batteries are thrown around while in transit, they cant be that dangerous

[GCE]

The lithium battery banks are incased in a metal casing - The actual cells are the size of a penlight battery and then packed together
I don't see a problem installing in a residential area as long as your battery terminals are enclosed

Basically the metal casing is the "box" vs a gel battery which you need to install in some sort of casing ,in case it " bursts " and spills acid everywhere .The hydrogen while charging and discharging needs to be taken into consideration and the bigger the bank the more concern as it becomes a hazardous area .

[Dylboy]

I agree lithium is fine.

Now I ask these trolly inverters are Lead Acid or AGM, are they allowed in the house ? I assume so as well they being sold and who am I to ask these giant company of they legal.

But still interesting.

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[Isetech]

I agree lithium is fine.

Now I ask these trolly inverters are Lead Acid or AGM, are they allowed in the house ? I assume so as well they being sold and who am I to ask these giant company of they legal.

But still interesting.

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IF the trolley units were a fire hazard or a danger to the public, they would not be allowed to sell them to the public, they would have had to some form of approval, which would have taken the hydrogen discharge under normal operating conditions.

I have had one in my lounge since 2008 when load shedding started. My only concern is the fact that I have taken the battery out the metal case, so there is a chance that a metal object could short out the terminals which could result in an explosion, which could be harmful to someone close the unit. the reason for this is to exchange batteries that to Eskom.

[Isetech]

The lithium battery banks are incased in a metal casing - The actual cells are the size of a penlight battery and then packed together
I don't see a problem installing in a residential area as long as your battery terminals are enclosed

Basically the metal casing is the "box" vs a gel battery which you need to install in some sort of casing ,in case it " bursts " and spills acid everywhere .The hydrogen while charging and discharging needs to be taken into consideration and the bigger the bank the more concern as it becomes a hazardous area .

We are using this type of battery (BYD and Catl) which as you can see by the data sheet are pretty safe.

This is why I calling the person who made the comments as BS, until I see a data sheet or up to date regulation with warnings or banning the public and DIYer from buying these batteries to install in their house.

I have spoken to many many people, including design engineers, MIE', the AIA and about these rumours people are spreading, and nobody can show me evidence that I cannot install a lithium battery in a house.

I have even browsed through the 2011 SANS 10400-T which is so outdated if you taking about lithium technology.

I encourage anyone with evidence that we cannot install a lithium battery in the house to come forward with evidence to support your comment.

[Isetech]

Something to consider when you hear it is dangerous to store, install, charge and discharge.

Lets see your evidence.



https://cmxbattery.com/Product/byd-iron-phosphate-lithium-large-lifepo4-battery-2/


About BYD lithium iron phosphate battery

BYD LFP Lithium ion batteries is a famous brand in China. The Cell is widely used for electronic car. Coremax provide high quality byd batteries for sale. Cells brand new and bulk quantity for wholesale price. You can use this cell to make lifepo4 24 volts battery pack or any other LFP battery applications. It is also a perfect choice for energy storage system. BYD lithium battery price is subject to the cell capacity. Please contact us for detail quotation.

1. Safety: safest Li-Ion battery, CE ROSH approved, built in PCM/PCB, none fire or explosive
2. Clean and Green energy, no toxic material contained
3. Powerful battery
4. Long life cycle, 80% capacity remain after 500 times deep cycle.
5. No memory effect,highly efficient charge anytime, no reduction of capacity
6. Operation temperature: -20~70°C
7. Portable design
8. Good performance at high temperature and high temperature resistance
9. Low self-discharge rate: < 3% monthly

tem	Test name	Result
1	Over charge	No fire,no explosion
2	Over discharge	No fire,no explosion
3	Short Circuit	No fire,no explosion
4	Drop	No fire,no explosion,no leakage
5	Hot oven	No fire,no explosion
6	Crush	No fire,no explosion
7	Needle puncture	No fire,no explosion

[Isetech]

Watching some of the videos of what happens when things go wrong, I believe we should be be focusing on a few things:

Location: Where batteries can be installed and under what conditions. IF too dangerous to install on your property then they shouldnt be sold to the public without a warning and danger notices all over the unit.

Safety: What is required to safely isolate the battery if it goes into a fault condition, where to install the disconnecting device.

There should notices around the batteries to indicate the type of fire extinguisher should be used, just imagine someone taking a hose pipe and spraying water onto a lithium battery in the garage, between the EV and the solar battery you could have quite a fire works display.

https://firefighterinsider.com/the-best-fire-extinguisher-for-lithium-ion-batteries/

Note: These batteries are not just 1 cell, they designed and manufactured into a complete unit which should be supplied with all the relevant protect devices required for safe operation under both normal and fault conditions. Additional protection should not be required. The electrician installs safety equipment for the cabling not the complete unit, it should have all the correct components built into the device.

Copied from the latest SANS reg:

Some say the BMS is not a suitable overcurrent protection device, should the manufacturer not install the correct overload protection at the terminals?

7.15.3 Overcurrent protection
An overcurrent protective device shall be installed at both ends of the
conductor between the live terminals of the battery and the battery charger
and as close as practically possible to the terminals. For overcurrent
protection of other circuits, see 6.7.1.


6.7.1 Overcurrent protection
NOTE The term overcurrent protection includes both overload protection (see 6.7.2)
and short-circuit protection (see 6.7.3).

6.7.1.1 Each phase conductor of an installation, live (unearthed) conductor of
an earthed d.c. system, and conductor in an unearthed d.c. installation shall
be protected against overload and short-circuit currents by one or more
protective device(s). Each protective device shall have a rated current that
does not exceed the lowest of the current-carrying capacities of any of the
conductors of the circuit and shall have a minimum short-circuit rating of
2,5 kA.


In a d.c. installation that has multiple sources of power, each source shall be
protected individually. Protective devices shall be located as closely as
possible to the source terminals, taking all other requirements (such as battery
rooms) into account.

3 inverters - 3 devices.

3 batteries - 3 devices.

3 solar strings - 3 devices.

Like the eskom crisis, these primitive regulations require urgent attention, especially with regards to import and distribution and installation of lithium batteries.

Lets get the facts right, these units are dangerous fire hazards under fault conditions with very little public awareness.

[Isetech]

The lithium battery banks are incased in a metal casing - The actual cells are the size of a penlight battery and then packed together
I don't see a problem installing in a residential area as long as your battery terminals are enclosed

Basically the metal casing is the "box" vs a gel battery which you need to install in some sort of casing ,in case it " bursts " and spills acid everywhere .The hydrogen while charging and discharging needs to be taken into consideration and the bigger the bank the more concern as it becomes a hazardous area .

I have noticed many companies still use the old 18650 type cells for drop in lithium batteries, but I have noticed more and more companies are using lithium ion phosphate prismatic cells.

If those little mobile inverter boxes released enough hydrogen under normal charging conditions to create a fire hazard, they would have been classified as a hazard and prevented from being sold anywhere in the world.

It could also explain why they moved away from standard FLA to gel and AGM.

But hey, I am no expert in batteries, just trying to work my way through the maize of BS being spewed at the moment.

The only reason I am wasting my time trying to sort through this maize, I have to issue COC's for solar and inverter projects I am busy installing.