Lithium batteries in residential properties

[Isetech]

I agree lithium is fine.

Now I ask these trolly inverters are Lead Acid or AGM, are they allowed in the house ? I assume so as well they being sold and who am I to ask these giant company of they legal.

But still interesting.

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If they released more than the allowed hydrogen during the charge process, under "normal" operating conditions, they would need to be classified and wouldnt be sold anywhere in the world.

What you will learn if you decide to become an MIE, the most important part of the process is not learning the (I think there are 18 books now) books parrot fashion line for line, it is more about identifying that there could be a potential risk, what type of risk, then you would classify the area, follow up by identifying which regs to read and make sure you understand the content. Its all about volume of substance and air movement.

A free tips: dont bog yourself down with trying to learn every single rule and regulation word for word, rather learn to identify a situation, then learn to quickly identify the location of the relevant regulation for reference.

GCE makes us lazy by sharing the regulations (not that I am complaining), if you are still a youngster in the industry, it is good practice find the reg and tag it for future reference, scribble notes in your book and highlight stuff as often as possible.

[Isetech]

My conclusion: You can install a lithium battery under your bed, it should be ok.

How I came to this conclusion:

1/ The batteries are designed and sold for residential applications, with no danger or warning notices from the manufacturer.

2/ A lithium battery will not release dangerous gasses like hydrogen during the charging or discharging process.

3/ A lithium battery is designed and built with a long list of safety features, to protect the battery under normal operating conditions.

4/ Most EV's have the battery directly below the seat.

5/ Rv's have them against a wooden support in unvented compartment under the bed or right next to the fuel tank.

What I would do if I were to install a lithium battery in my own home:

1/ I would contact my insurance company, and verify the property will be covered if I install the battery in the house.

2/ I would make sure I have a fire extinguisher that suitable for lithium batteries, and not have any water close by the battery, I am sure you have seen what happens if you throw water on the burning lithium.

3/ I would make sure there is nothing mounted directly above the battery and I certainly not the disconnection device.

If you can prove me wrong, makes sure you provide evidence, regulations that were introduced after lithium phosphate lifepo4 became the next big thing since sliced bread.

[Dylboy]

I spoke to a Chap who is in logistics and he asked about an inverter and he said it's funny that you can't fly in a lithium battery, it has to be as part of an appliance. So can't just be the battery but if the inverter is connected then it's fine. Weird that but thought worth sharing. My guess is the inverter has protection of sorts for the battery too.

But he did say you can ship lithium however you like.

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[Isetech]

Another reason why you dont need to stress about lithium batteries, this battery is sold as a drop in replacement for alarm systems (installed in your wooden bedroom cupboard) in the bedroom.

There are no danger notices attached to this battery, companies like Blue nova and secri prod are selling them with NRS approval, so there should be no danger dropping it into a sherlo power supply or alarm system or you gate motor.

https://www.makro.co.za/home-garden/lighting/home-automation/smart-electrical/securi-prod-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-12-8v-20ah/p/c77cb036-8458-4192-92ec-97ff26553ac3?gclid=Cj0KCQjwnP-ZBhDiARIsAH3FSResZhxMu-v5gFIqXDeFDRKPKGDkhj2OIC0KunzcmxHusbPKOM7fg3gaAroLEALw_wcB

The Securi Prod Rechargeable Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery 12.8V 20AH can help keep your devices powered during power failures and load shedding.
Applications

• Generators
• Portable Jump Start
• Lighting systems
• Alarm systems
• Battery backup systems such as Securi Prod and SherloTronics
• General purpose electronics

Features:

• Securi-Prod Lithium Iron Phosphate LiFePO4) Battery
• New Lithium Iron Phosphate cells
• High Cycle Life: >3000 @ 80% Depth of Discharge
• Suitable SLA Replacement – Backup Power, Solar Applications, UPS, etc
• Built-in Battery Management System for Battery Protection
• Light Weight – 30% of SLA battery

Specifications:

• Brand: Securi-Prod
• Nominal Voltage: 12V (12.8V)
• Capacity: 20AH
• Self-Discharge: <3%/month
• Max Discharge Current: 20A
• Recommended Discharge Current: <10A
• Max Charge Current: 10A
• Recommended Charge Current: <5A
• BMS Cut-off Low Voltage: 9.2V
• BMS Charge Cut-off High Voltage: 14.6V
• Terminal Type: Screw Stud (M6)
• Enclosure Protection: IP65
• Discharge Temperature: -20ºC to 60ºC
• Charge Temperature: 0ºC to 45ºC
• Warranty: Manufacturer Warranty

What's in the box:
1 x Securi-Prod Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery 12.8V 20AH

[Isetech]

I spoke to a Chap who is in logistics and he asked about an inverter and he said it's funny that you can't fly in a lithium battery, it has to be as part of an appliance. So can't just be the battery but if the inverter is connected then it's fine. Weird that but thought worth sharing. My guess is the inverter has protection of sorts for the battery too.

But he did say you can ship lithium however you like.

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I am busy with a project at the moment, we cannot get clearance to ship a piece of equipment which has a lithium battery, we have had to buy the unit, ship it then replace all the lead acid component with lithium chargers and battery.

Yet I buy 2 x 5 kwh batteries and they are thrown in the back of a courier van and unloaded looking like they were dragged from the far east.

I ask myself if I cant get anyone to give me a straight yes/no answer and nobody can produce a regulation preventing me from installing a lithium battery under my bed, and thousands of peopel are doing it, why waste my time. The property will be covered by insurance if the house burns down, what more do you need.

[Isetech]

By the way there is a "caution notice" in the bottom corner of all alarm batteries, both lead acid and lithium. I think it is there just in case you do burn down your house by installing it in a wooden cupboard full of junk, in a box with electronic gear and glass fuses, but hey, hydrogen is heavier than air and the volume released during the charge cycle shouldn't exceed the permissible amount under normal working condition.

[Isetech]

This is your get out of jail free card if something does go wrong. the battery is sold as a suitable sealed lead acid replacement

• Suitable SLA Replacement – Backup Power, Solar Applications, UPS, etc

[Isetech]

Why it is not a smart idea to mount your battery against the wall in the garage, where your vehicle can damage the battery. Just imagine getting a call from the other half, "dear I have some bad news, I bumped the battery you had fitted too low in the garage, which then became a projectile because the installer used the silly anchors supplied with the unit and it is now wedged in the side of your Bugatti. Fortunately it didtn catch on fire"

• Ensure adequate and secure mounting as the battery can become a projectile if involved in an accident.

https://www.victronenergy.com/media/pg/Lithium_Battery_Smart/en/installation.html

[Isetech]

By the way this is why you pay a little more for Victron product compared to everyone else, you get what you pay, support that is years ahead of the rest.

If you are looking for any form of support be it technical data sheets, how to videos, example of installations, you name it just google Victron and you will find what you are looking.

Any other backup solution, you lucky to get a half a$$ translated document with anything worth reading.

Victron offer a 48 repair turnaround, try get a response from other technical department within 48 hours or even a week.

If you are the end user , I wish you luck getting any support. I am waiting 3 years for a COC to be issued by and installer. All we get is next week, next week, I am very busy at the moment due to the load shedding. Lets hope this load shedding is sorted out in the next 10 years, other otherwise you system would have run its warranty you are never going to get any support.

The sad part is as soon as the backup hype is over and the issues start, like system failures and you start trying to get support or claim for faulty equipment (which carries a promised 10-25 year warranty) within 5 years at least 80 % of then will be gone, within 10 years I doubt 1 % of them will still be around.

I read adverts where companies say they have been in the industry for 10 years, yet the hype only started about 5 months ago.

I hope I am wrong for the sake of many people who have invested large sums of money in an industry which was created out of desperation due to load shedding, but I believe we are going to see many people crying long tears when they realise what a big mistake they have made.

Then there is huge replacement cost for badly designed systems and systems which fail earlier than predicted.

Long term loans and bonds on properties which people will feel as the economy crashes and the interest rate climbs and the price of everything just keeps going up and up.

[Dylboy]

I agree ! Shit is hitting the fan and soon these batteries that say 10 years will not work. Also they say 10 years at 25degrees.... What is the temp factor to add when we average 30degeees in summer, is it now 5 years ??

I think a good position to be in is to get into inverter repair... As you say it will come.

I am spending what ever free time I have in my brain to think of a way to not be an electrician... Maybe get into sales or import or consultations.

I would love a sponsorship to study engineering but that is unlikely and I can't afford to not work and study for 5 years hahaha. But that's just me

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[Dylboy]

Heck maybe be a solar consultant as that seems to be thing at the moment and tell people what they actually need and then go shop around... But also who the eff am I to tell people what to get, I am a spark with some experience. Not and engineer or 30 years behind my name.



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[Isetech]

Something else to consider, I have noticed comments about not mounting certain brands of batteries and inverters on wood, another pro for using Victron equipment, you can mount it on wood in a Van under the bed or in a boat inside a wooden enclosure.

After doing a lot of research into lithium batteries, 2 things I noticed:

1 - lithium and water dont go together.

2. - physical damage to a lithium battery will cause the battery to catch on fire and likely to explode.

Why would people install a lithium battery in a garage on the floor or below 1.2 m, the risk of a vehicle damaging the battery which could result in a fire.

I learnt a ton of stuff this weekend about submarines, generators and battery banks. How they deal with the challenges they face charging the batteries and how they deal with the fumes from the generator and hydrogen while charging the huge banks of lead acid batteries. How a submarine runs in stealth mode. I have never even considered the issue they have to deal with until researching lithium batteries.

If they can install hundreds of kwh of lead acid/lithium batteries in a sub, having a few lead acid or lithium batteries around the house is certain not a big deal.

[Justloadit]

I spoke to a Chap who is in logistics and he asked about an inverter and he said it's funny that you can't fly in a lithium battery, it has to be as part of an appliance. So can't just be the battery but if the inverter is connected then it's fine. Weird that but thought worth sharing. My guess is the inverter has protection of sorts for the battery too.

But he did say you can ship lithium however you like.

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The reason that Lithium cells are not transported via air shipments, is that a number of years back, a Lithium battery was used for battery back up in one of the aircraft. Something went wrong while flying in which the battery caught fire.
Here is a video Lithium batteries spark fears of plane fires
Lithium can be sent by sea, but it also has its issues, see here a fire on ship suspected from a battery fire fire onboard the ultra-large container ship Maersk Honam 7 March.

The reason that you must inform that you are shipping Lithium in containers, is that they then stack the battery laden container on the upper levels of stacked containers, and if there is a fire in these containers, they simply knock them of the deck into the sea.

[Justloadit]

Why are installers wasting money using a fuse as a disconnector, if they are not required and not suitable for on load disconnecting, considering the battery has more safety devices, which include overload, over charge and a long list of other protection.

Should one not use an onload switch disconnector, considering the only time you might need to disconnect the battery in case of emergency is if there is a fire.

Then one would ask why the device is mounted directly above the battery, it is about as stupid as fitting the isolator behind a chip fryer.

The internal battery protection is done by "Silicon" devices.
They can fail, and usually do fail as a short circuit. If this happens, then the little control switch to enable or disable the battery will not work, as the switching device no longer follows the control signal, and means that under a fault condition, it will rely on an external protection device. The in line fuse is designed as a safety measure and not as a disconnect device.

I feel more comfortable using a Battery Disconnect device, and some other device for short circuit protection, in the case that the internal electronics fails.

I use one like this battery disconnect switch

[Dylboy]

That is very interesting on the transport of lithium ! Makes a lot of sense why now they cautious of it.

Thank you for sharing !

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