Lithium batteries in residential properties

[Isetech]

One very important aspect of belonging to the CYA club, get a response in writing from the manufacturer or supplier.

If the regulations are not updated to keep up with technology, then you have to take it one step further, at the end of the day, the question will be, What precautions did you take to ensure the safety of the installation?

"All our batteries have a built-in BMS (battery management system).



This has a shut-down feature in case of any battery fault condition be it temperature or voltage-related.



Of all the derivatives in the Lithium family of batteries chemistries, our units does not contain



cobalt, which is the volatile side of the Lithium clan. Our CPS (Compact Power Station) range



of units has been installed in homes country-wide with much confidence and with success"

[Justloadit]

The fact that many units are used, does not mean that there will not be a exception failure. This is the reason that protection is used, to prevent the catastrophic aftermath.

[Isetech]

The fact that many units are used, does not mean that there will not be a exception failure. This is the reason that protection is used, to prevent the catastrophic aftermath.

I agree, that's why I keep going on about safe isolation and installing the switch disconnector directly above the battery is not the smartest thing to do

Providing the correct safety gear and signage wouldnt be a bad idea.

What I was taught many years ago, always access the situation, identify risks and take precaution as required.

Areas are classified by a list of criteria. If the risk under normal operation conditions are not met, then additional precaution is required. Be it by classifying the area as a hazardous location which will require suitable equipment.

A simple thing like a spray booth, you can install and extractor fan, it just has to be suitable for the application.

The same with light fitting for spray booths, over the years we have got smarter and instead of using expensive lights installed inside the booth, we use a sealed piece of glass and fit standard fitting outside the booth.

It seems that people have lost that ability to think a little further than a line in a book. Dont get wrong, I am sure you have realised by now that I am all for safety 110 % (which is why I ask so many questing) so lets ask question and have your say if you feel it could be done better or safer.

[Isetech]

I keep going back to the this topic because it seems this is another issue at the moment, just how dangerous are lithium batteries?

What form of protection do the enclosures offer, will they blow up like a bomb and spray metal seriously injury anyone in the close proximity?

What makes a lithium battery dangerous?

People take fire walls, fire rated doors and fire escapes.

My concern is what is all that going to help if you drive into the battery mounted on the wall in your garage with your entire family in the vehicle which could also pose a another list of dangers.

Looking at pics of installation on social media, either there is too much hype about the dangers or we have serious problem, silly things like mixing AC and DC cables with different voltages is laughed off like it just a rule for some fools.

[Dave A]

My concern is what is all that going to help if you drive into the battery mounted on the wall in your garage with your entire family in the vehicle which could also pose a another list of dangers.

The greatest hazard appears to be fire, which also produces toxic fumes emitted by the fire. If you drive into the battery in the garage, I suggest you drive straight back out of the garage

In reading one of the battery data sheets not so long ago, it also indicated a threat of spontaneous combustion ignition at 130 degrees Celsius.
Which is fairly high under normal circumstances...

And while on the subject of fire, I have read "don't put water on the fire" numerous times. What is missing is what you are supposed to use to extinguish the fire?
Or are you supposed to just let it burn out?

[Isetech]

I dont know that you will be driving out the garage if you hit a 5 000 wh lithium battery with your vehicle, but hey I wouldnt know I never heard of it happening, even though people feel it is safe to install lithium batteries in garages below 1200 mm. It is going to happen at the rate people are installing them, It is going to be interesting to follow the outcome. Trying to find safe location to install these batteries is becoming a challenge, especial if there is no outbuilding or garage.

I am looking forward to reading an article with regards to how dangerous a lithium battery can be and suitable installations. All 3 installations I have completed, had no garages to install them, and gas bottles too close to awnings, I have had to take a few things into consideration.

Looking at pics on social media, it doesnt seem people are too concerned about safe location, its just a metal box, it looks harmless.

The greatest hazard appears to be fire, which also produces toxic fumes emitted by the fire. If you drive into the battery in the garage, I suggest you drive straight back out of the garage

In reading one of the battery data sheets not so long ago, it also indicated a threat of spontaneous combustion ignition at 130 degrees Celsius.
Which is fairly high under normal circumstances...

And while on the subject of fire, I have read "don't put water on the fire" numerous times. What is missing is what you are supposed to use to extinguish the fire?
Or are you supposed to just let it burn out?

[Justloadit]

Lithium-ion batteries are considered a Class B fire, so a standard ABC or dry chemical fire extinguisher should be used.
Maybe provide an extinguisher next to the battery bank with every installation as a form of safety.

There nothing stopping one from building a metal skirt around the battery to ensure that if the battery catches fire, the only way the heat and fumes is to go up. This has its own problems.

[Isetech]

Anyone managed to source a lithium battery guidleine, specific to SA. I did share the Austrialia one, but yet to see one for SA.

Now you can buy battery trolleys from sunsynk which can hold 4 batteries and the inverter in a single cabinet. By the way I love it, this is the best thing since sliced bread. I want one of these to put in my office. So much for all the fuss about spacing I would assume this would need to be installed in a climate controlled environment with enough fans to cool.

It also proves that all my comments about installing these units in cupboards, are legit. If you can install it in a small cabinet like this I dont see why you cant install it in a cupboard with adequate ventilation ? Living and learning, feel free to correct me.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XmuGnYHHzhI

[Isetech]

By the way these IP 65 batteries seem to be the better quality units, not sure if the R2000 price increase last week was due to the demand for the components or just because they are better quality than the other sunsynk batteries (price stayed the same)

As with everything there is acatch, the IP 65 batteries cannot be remotely upgraded, they have to be returned to Sunsynk for a firmware upgrade, if required.

Make sure the batterry being installed on your property has the latest firmaware

I would expect the manufacturer and importer will ensure that they are only released with the latest firmware.

I am led to believe that the latest firmware for the inverters has been dropped back to 3.3.8.2 , instead of 3.3.8.4 for whatever reason. As always, if anyone has more accurate information feel free to share. I would like to know why they are no longe rusing 3.8.8.4.

It would also help if someone could share why the upgrades are required and how they benifit the consumer.

Surely if you upgrade the firmware on the inverter the app should be upgraded, the battery fimware should be upgraded. Maybe the latest firmaware release was stopped because of battery communication issues. I am seeing a few people posting pics of batteries with the faults.

[Isetech]

If you have a Sunsynk battery going into fault mode after a firmware upgrade and there is only one battery, it could be a simple parameter change from 1 to 0, thank to one of my customers who identified this issue.

[Smiley]

There are comments on social media, where someone mentioned that you cannot install a lithium battery inside the house, it has to be outside the firewall. Being shared on social media, with no support or relative data. Can we call it BS?

I ask the question again, this is for the people who supply lithium batteries in SA (which I would assume required NRS approval), can I install a lithium battery designed for residential applications with no warning or danger notices, sold directly to the public in my kitchen, yes or no.

The old battery storage regs were using the FLA batteries which give off hydrogen while charging.

Does anyone have new SANS 10400-T regs, maybe they have been updated since 20011 (before lithium lifepo4 was even a consideration for solar storage).

If these batteries are so dangerous that they shouldn't be in the house, maybe someone should step in stop them from being sold to the public without warning notices and some form of public awareness, have you watched how these batteries are thrown around while in transit, they can't be that dangerous

Jip, not a rumor. There is something coming along the lines of a fireproof door inside an enclosure or whatnot. What exactly the final regulations will be, "they" are still debating it.

Heard that just the other week from the sparkie I know and trust, he is an Installation Electrician, so he is quite aware of the SSEG SANS regulations. It is in their books, the SSEG regulations.
The same was confirmed by an Engineer that signs off grid-tied solar systems. He told me about the "fierce" debating going on around it.

Here is maybe why:
Not even a big battery ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRPW8zN_c0E
The cellphones/laptops batteries ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nz5ijXcckI
And EV's ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5vDWhMHTwE

This is how firefighters had to extinguish a Tesla on fire: https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...re-sacramento/

So yeah, it is a rather HUGE issue.
BMS is there to stop it. But IF something does go wrong, o boy.

The actual cells are the size of a penlight battery and then packed together.

Basically, the metal casing is the "box" vs a gel battery which you need to install in some sort of casing,in case it " bursts " and spills acid everywhere.

Some Lifepo4 banks have cells like these in them: https://www.electromannsa.com/produc...ock-4pcs-a-lot

Other may come in pouches like these: https://www.szaspower.com/2-subchann...4-battery.html

The small 7/9ah drop-in replacements have the "penlight" (just much bigger) sized cells in.

FWIW, I've seen pics of UPS with 2 x 102ah lead acid batteries inside a metal box having blown apart when the 2 batteries inside exploded. Acid EVERYWHERE, dripping off the ceiling too.
The client did not service the batts. They were like +-8 years old ... basically dead shorted over a weekend. Luckily no one was in the office at the time.

[Isetech]

This is the problem right now, tooooooo many debates going on a toooo little certification and guidelines. Its going to be a free for all until the regulations are finalised and some form of guidline is released.

By then most of the hit anf runs will be long gone, ther eis going to be so much work for sparkies

I am loving this load shedding and the fact that banks a e throwing money at people, offering approved installers who will do a 8 KVA installation with 2 batteries and a roof full of panles for under R200K. I jusat hope the banks ar egoing to offer extended loans for us us to bring the installations up to standard

If you are a youngster deciding your future, theis is where you want to go, there is such a massive shortage of skills I am hoping we will move the wages to a more reasonable rate, like tool maker sand otehr trades. I beleive an IE worth his salt, should be earning R40k plus vehcile and benefits.

[Smiley]

This is the problem right now, tooooooo many debates going on a toooo little certification and guidelines. Its going to be a free for all until the regulations are finalised and some form of guidline is released.

No debates when one becomes aware that the National SANS Regulations, the SSEG part of them, are already in the new books sparkies use.
That one needs an NRS certification if one wants to connect an inverter, with solar panels connected to it, to a DB.
My Sparkie hauls out his book and goes to the chapters on request.
Same as the regulations being in place for yonks on connecting a generator to a DB board.

What gets me is when people say it is "CoCT regulations". It is not. It is National Regulations already in place for a few years now.
It all depends on the local Munic and if they are enforcing said regulations, or not.

And THAT is the core problem. Who enforces them, and who does not?

And if one's supply is Eskom, the same National regs apply, again, it depends on if Eskom enforces them, or not, in one's area.

For example, in CoCT: .. when they see panels on the roof (aerial photography) and no registration:
You can get a +R6700 fine if they see the panels installed and no registration.
Sometimes they can even cut your supply too until you conform to the standards set out.
OR force you to remove the installation.

A working Munic in other words.
And there are quite a lot of them "coming online", copying what CoCT has been planning since 2008 (when I became aware of this), each with their own tweaks.
Because the more people going solar, the more the Munic loses on income.

So it is becoming a real "thing" for them to keep an eye on it ... the Munic's that "work" that is.

My advice: If the local Munic is still messing around, then follow CoCT rules and regs.
At least one has a damn good starting point to keep it safe ... and "future-proofing" ones install for when one's local Munic "gets sorted".

[Isetech]

Please share the safety guidleine to installing lithium batteires in residential properties, or point us in the right direction, maybe a page number. I am not looking for lead acid/Gel or AGM regualations, specific to lithium being used in the industry at the moment.

No debates when one becomes aware that the National SANS Regulations, the SSEG part of them, are already in the new books sparkies use.
That one needs an NRS certification if one wants to connect an inverter, with solar panels connected to it, to a DB.
My Sparkie hauls out his book and goes to the chapters on request.
Same as the regulations being in place for yonks on connecting a generator to a DB board.

What gets me is when people say it is "CoCT regulations". It is not. It is National Regulations already in place for a few years now.
It all depends on the local Munic and if they are enforcing said regulations, or not.

And THAT is the core problem. Who enforces them, and who does not?

And if one's supply is Eskom, the same National regs apply, again, it depends on if Eskom enforces them, or not, in one's area.

For example, in CoCT: .. when they see panels on the roof (aerial photography) and no registration:
You can get a +R6700 fine if they see the panels installed and no registration.
Sometimes they can even cut your supply too until you conform to the standards set out.
OR force you to remove the installation.

A working Munic in other words.
And there are quite a lot of them "coming online", copying what CoCT has been planning since 2008 (when I became aware of this), each with their own tweaks.
Because the more people going solar, the more the Munic loses on income.

So it is becoming a real "thing" for them to keep an eye on it ... the Munic's that "work" that is.

My advice: If the local Munic is still messing around, then follow CoCT rules and regs.
At least one has a damn good starting point to keep it safe ... and "future-proofing" ones install for when one's local Munic "gets sorted".

[Smiley]

As mentioned, it is currently being debated by the powers that be, a contentious debate I'm told by an engineer that does solar signoffs when I asked him for the details, after the sparkie informed me of this new coming development, when we discussing a few things.

See, I'm very interested in this development myself. Have a DIY 14kWh bank inside the house consisting of 15 x 280ah cells, and it is not in metal, is inside the house.

Once it is released in final form, will try and remember to post it here.

FWIW, get hold of the latest regulations book each and every sparkie should have a copy of. It is a paid subscription they have to do every time there are updated regulations I'm told.

This is a good place to start: https://ecasa.co.za/training/sans-10...ng-up-in-2023/

https://ecasa.co.za/member-support/sans-10142-1-edition-3-now-available-from-all-ecasa-offices-join-the-ecas-ed-3-updates-course-on-18-september/