open wiring

[murdock]

use a bootlace ferrol...which should become a standard for all connections which have screws directly onto the wires like the ones issued with stove islolators

[natal21]

As far as I knew every pipe feeding a light unless ending in a adapter screwed into the light , had to be ended off in a box. By law

[murdock]

As far as I knew every pipe feeding a light unless ending in a adapter screwed into the light , had to be ended off in a box. By law

give us the code reference or description...

[Sparks]

I've also used non-existing regs as an excuse to teach someone a more acceptable work ethic. If it works why not?

[AndyD]

Hmmm, I'm not sure making up regs to suit the situation is a good idea, even to promote good work ethic.

[natal21]

page 196 6.16.1.9
6.16.1.9 Unless part of the appliance or self contained in their own
enclosure, control components of fixed appliances that form part of the fixed
installation, including their input terminations and associated protective
switchgear that are not mounted in the distribution board, shall be
incorporated in a suitable enclosure(s) that comply with the requirements of
6.6.1 and 6.6.4. Enclosure(s) shall be
a) non-flammable,
b) located as near to the appliance(s) as is practicable,
c) permanently installed,
d) such that they cannot be opened without the use of a tool, and
e) readily accessible.

now light fittings are a fixed appliance

page149 4.8 wiring thru building elements

if wiring passes through a building element including a ceiling it shall be non flammable enclosure or wireway

only by putting as box flush with the ceiling and screwing the light fitting to the box can you have an enclosure, or of course put the pipe through and into the light fitting

so accordingly I still say no exposed wiring in the ceiling

[murdock]

i just need to get this straight...so you telling me every single light fitting you install has a box above the light where the light is terminated or a pipe which is flush with the ceiling?

do you do twin + e installations?

[natal21]

use a screw in gland as an entry point, not gonna argue with you , feel free to do your installations as you see fit but the question was about exposed wiring not twin and earth

[natal21]

sorry forgot to answer your question , but we don't do flush pipes to ceiling, every light ends in a loop in box when we do pipe and wires and the boxes vare all fastened to a batten so they sit flush with the ceiling when its installed.

[Sparks]

Couple of crossed lines here. The supply circuitry is not included in: "page 196 6.16.1.9
6.16.1.9 Unless part of the appliance or self contained in their own
enclosure, control components of fixed appliances that form part of the fixed
installation, including their input terminations and associated protective
switchgear that are not mounted in the distribution board, shall be
incorporated in a suitable enclosure(s) that comply with the requirements of
6.6.1 and 6.6.4. Enclosure(s) shall be
a) non-flammable,
b) located as near to the appliance(s) as is practicable,
c) permanently installed,
d) such that they cannot be opened without the use of a tool, and
e) readily accessible."
It specifically states:control components; terminations and switchgear.

The main thing here which we all agree on it seems is not quite "open wiring" but rather "exposed conductors" are a no-no. If the installation is old enough to have "open wiring" and that wiring is still as installed with all the cleats in place and no sagging, illegal joints, the correct spacing etc. and the insulation resistance readings are >1MOhm then I see no reason to fail the installation based on the fact that it is "open wiring". In most cases I have found the readings much better than T/E

Even T/E needs to be installed as per guidlines, not just loosely thrown over the beams where it is easier to work with.

[Dave A]

If it works why not?

Because it'll bite you in the ass one day. Rumour and misinformation seems to have a knack for spreading faster than the dry truth.

I had one about a month ago - a purchaser of a property we'd issued the COC on had been told a whole pile of tripe by another electrician. The on-site meeting (with SANS codes firmly to hand) to clarify was actually a pleasant experience (at least for me ). Biting my tongue and taking the pile of abuse that was hurled at me as I was working on setting up that meeting was definitely not a pleasure.

I don't think the pleasure in the end was worth the pain in the beginning, and I'm pretty sure the other electrician wasn't to enamored with the experience either.

Play it straight as you can, I reckon. There's enough BS in this world without adding to it intentionally.

[Dave A]

Oh - there's a "next page" I hadn't read when I made the previous reply...

I've got a question:

6.16.1.9 Unless part of the appliance or self contained in their own
enclosure, control components of fixed appliances...

At the risk of showing my ignorance, isn't this section requiring enclosures relating to the control components, protective switch gear etc. rather than the fixed appliance itself?

If yes, I don't see how it is relevant to light point terminations.

[Sparks]

It specifically states:control components; terminations and switchgear with reference to "fixed appliances" which is what a light fitting is. But yet again the actual words can be brought in to it.

Wires /conductors?
Light fittings/ luminaires?
spade/shovel?

[Dave A]

At the risk of being difficult, when it comes to input terminations, surely that is the input terminations to the control components et al.

Then there's the matter that lights are not just "ordinary" fixed appliances - they're luminaires.

In support of my point, consider 6.16.1.4 which states:
Where a fan or heater is included in a luminaire, the luminaire is regarded as a fixed appliance....

[Sparks]

So you would find acceptable the connection of a "light fitting" where the ceiling rose is amiss and the joints are below the ceiling? :-)