BBBEE wrong

[Greig Whitton]

I don't know if he was joking or serious but if this is legal you can kill two birds with one stone. You can be proactive by offering a good home to a black orphan who would normally not stand a chance in the system and of which there are probably more than white owned business or families. You can get 100% compliance by naming him as the sole or majority owner but because he is under age you are his guardian and make all decisions for him/her and the business.

That's called fronting and it's not legal.

[Blurock]

A common thread that runs through BEE thoughts seems to be the fixation on ownership. It is but one component and a company can easily score 65% without maximizing opportunities and without any black ownership.

Without Black ownership there are no tenders for manufacturers and suppliers. The reality is that a tenderpreneur can import low quality, uncertified items and sell it on a highly regulated environment only because he/she has connections with the Zuma government. As an example, the diesel sold to ESKOM by two ladies at a hugely inflated price. That is the only reason how people with cleaning or catering companies can sell medical supplies and technical engineering equipment to the government. BEE is a licence for corruption!

These individuals are pushing the country into bankruptcy, because when you import low quality items that are sold at an inflated price, you are undermining local manufacturers and causing factories and businesses to close. (remember our once thriving textile industry?) For every import, a job is exported - never to return again. It is not only job losses, but also the manufacturing skills. Once we lose our skills, we lose everything and we will become totally dependent on imports which will get more expensive with an ever deflating currency.

It is not only the factories that close and people losing their jobs. There are also indirect jobs. Do not think that because you work in a bank, shop or accounting office that you will not be affected. Factories need trucks to transport their goods. They need accountants and bankers and their staff buy from shops. When factories close, the workers are out on the street and do not have the buying power to support your take-away or shop. Think about it!

The new BEE codes will now discriminate against businesses like ours, just to empower tenderpreneurs as mentioned above. So if we no longer get orders, what happens to the black people that we employ and equip with skills to become more than just workers, but technicians who can stand their own in the job market?

I am all for equal opportunity and skills development, but I will not let a fat cat sit on my board just because he is black or white or anything in-between. I do not want politics and politicians to run my life. If it does not make economical sense, it is not good for business and future prosperity. To create wealth we have to do away with quota players and be the best that we can be. Incidentally, most of our own procurement is from BEE companies, not because they are black, but because it makes economical sense.

[Greig Whitton]

Without Black ownership there are no tenders for manufacturers and suppliers. The reality is that a tenderpreneur can import low quality, uncertified items and sell it on a highly regulated environment only because he/she has connections with the Zuma government. As an example, the diesel sold to ESKOM by two ladies at a hugely inflated price. That is the only reason how people with cleaning or catering companies can sell medical supplies and technical engineering equipment to the government. BEE is a licence for corruption!

To be fair, doing away with B-BBEE isn't going to stop the corruption or tenderpreneurship. Ironically, government tends to enforce B-BBEE less stringently when choosing suppliers than the private sector. Who you know and and how much you are willing to bribe are usually more significant factors.

[Blurock]

To be fair, doing away with B-BBEE isn't going to stop the corruption or tenderpreneurship. Ironically, government tends to enforce B-BBEE less stringently when choosing suppliers than the private sector. Who you know and and how much you are willing to bribe are usually more significant factors.

Bribery is out of the question. One cannot be against corruption and then do exactly what they do.

[Greig Whitton]

Bribery is out of the question. One cannot be against corruption and then do exactly what they do.

I'm not suggesting that you (or anyone else) resort to bribery. I'm just trying to explain why B-BBEE has a minimal influence with respect to tenderpreneurship and corruption in general. Corrupt suppliers don't secure government tenders by having a high B-BBEE rating; they do it by having the right connections and bribing the right people.

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

Having been reading this thread of late, gave me pause to think.
Arguably, BBBEE has been the catalyst for the large scale corruption.
That corruption is not only in terms of who gets the tender but the actual prices.

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

The new codes are quite ironic.
If you remember it started as BEE. People then became partners with a black partner as a means to score well.
So it was adjusted to BBBEE, aiming to be broad based by extending the idea through to middle and lower levels.
The new codes have, in a round about way, changed that, returning back to BEE by forcing the businesses to get partners.
The theory is to create less, but more powerful industrialists.
There seems more sustainability in a bottom up approach, but alas

[Justloadit]

There was no added value to the service or product in the increase in price to cover the BBBEE cause, if only for the greed of a few.
Thinking about a very good example, is the tenderpreneurs who supply the diesel currently to ESKOM, at the hour of need are lining their pockets at the expense of the general population, who are struggling to meet the continuous increase of base cost. This practice is in no way empowering the PDI population but more like enslaving the PDI population, quite opposite to the original intention.

How long can this practice be sustained?

[Blurock]

There was no added value to the service or product in the increase in price to cover the BBBEE cause, if only for the greed of a few.
Thinking about a very good example, is the tenderpreneurs who supply the diesel currently to ESKOM, at the hour of need are lining their pockets at the expense of the general population, who are struggling to meet the continuous increase of base cost. This practice is in no way empowering the PDI population but more like enslaving the PDI population, quite opposite to the original intention.

How long can this practice be sustained?

Another good example is the lady that approached a bank (no names mentioned) to finance the procurement of tarpaulins. When asked, she explained that she was awarded a contract with Transnet for a substantial amount. She intended to import tarpaulins from China and wanted finance for procurement as well as the transport thereof. She has had no prior experience in this industry.

When asked about local procurement and what about the numbers of people she may potentially put out of work, her answer was that she can get the tarpaulins 10% cheaper from China. No concern for the local workers!

[bones]

Another good example is the lady that approached a bank (no names mentioned) to finance the procurement of tarpaulins. When asked, she explained that she was awarded a contract with Transnet for a substantial amount. She intended to import tarpaulins from China and wanted finance for procurement as well as the transport thereof. She has had no prior experience in this industry.

When asked about local procurement and what about the numbers of people she may potentially put out of work, her answer was that she can get the tarpaulins 10% cheaper from China. No concern for the local workers!

i personally lost a contract because the other guy
was R150 cheaper in total pricing then me also he
had bbbee thing i dont

it was a R10k job the other guy came in at R9850
thing is this guy never completed the job and i
told the customer to get lost for him the R150
was more important then commitment and quality

point is the customer always want to pay less
so we have to find ways to that

do i want to import cheaper stuff? no
do i have to import cheaper stuff? yes

blame the customer

[Blurock]

point is the customer always want to pay less
so we have to find ways to that

do i want to import cheaper stuff? no
do i have to import cheaper stuff? yes

blame the customer

There are certain things that have to be imported, but most things can be sourced from local manufacturers or suppliers. By supporting local industry, one is preserving local jobs as well as the skills to keep that industry going. Once we lose those skills we will never get it back. The problem with local industry is that we do not have the required volumes to be really competitive. If we all support local industries, it may eventually happen. Manufacturers should also look at their quality and aim to export as that will give them critical mass to be truly competitive.

Quality should be a much higher consideration as it will be cheaper in the long run. Cheap, low quality imports are devastating to any economy as it destroys all the economic principles. The poor people suffer most as they cannot afford the better quality and then opt for a cheaper alternative which does not last and has to be replaced soon. So they end up paying over and over to replace the same thing. As they say in Afrikaans "goedkoop is duur koop".

[Greig Whitton]

point is the customer always want to pay less

Maybe you are targeting the wrong customers?

[IanF]

Greig
Thanks for the links I filled out the affidavit and had it sworn at the police station. Nice and easy, I will post if there are any hassles.

[bones]

Maybe you are targeting the wrong customers?

beggars cant be choosers and there are no wrong customers
just a few jerks

i tell them point blank i dont have bbbee if that is a problem
i have a nice door they can use

i dont know how bbbee works i know some guy wanted to
charge me a lot to get the bbbee thing going

some customers told me they cant use my services if i dont
have it sh_t luck i dont care

i rather spend that money on stuff i need like equipment and
so on

[Greig Whitton]

the customer always want to pay less

beggars cant be choosers and there are no wrong customers

i dont know how bbbee works

some customers told me they cant use my services if i dont
have it sh_t luck i dont care

blame the customer

Pretty much what I assumed. Good luck with that.