The BEE issue

[tec0]

I don't go by rumours and we know why the power station was destroyed. Same reason a part of Jhb was without power for like 3 months, they had to hire a private contractor to repair the problem. So many examples.

Really you know what happened. Please do tell.

Please keep your personal opinions to yourself.

[Dave A]

I also wanted a filter, but the woman and the philamon there doesn't know ANYTHING.

I think this philamon label has come up often enough now to ask for a clear definition. What is a "philamon"?

[BusFact]

A bit frustrating and unfair don't you think ?

Very much so. It makes fronting so much more tempting. It also forces people into being negatively creative and reinforces the original problems with BEE which the Government tried to resolve by turning it into BBEEE.

What a pain.

[KimH]

Quote Originally Posted by KimH View Post

1. Ownership
2. Management & Control
3. Employment Equity
4. Skills Development
5. Procurement
6. Enterprise Development
7. Socio-Economic Development

Just to add my 2 cents worth......................
I am trying to stay in business which I have built up from NOTHING over 20 years.
The latest "requirement" at the mines is that irrespective of your BBBEE rating I MUST have black ownership of at least 26% which in a short time will be pushed up to 45%.
This is not "government policy" but they make their own rules. So even complying with BEE ( Level 2 and 126% ), I still cannot do business with them unless I put black ownership in place.
A bit frustrating and unfair don't you think ?

Horrendously unfair to say the least, and more than likely a result of this desire to "nationalise" the mines.

[Fanie]

Martin, I had exactly the same problem, the big co's tries to bully everyone. I made a decision not to support them and that was it. Fortunately I'm not dependant on them (expensive lesson from the past from most possibly the same situation) some of them now buy it through a third party still from me only at an increased price. It really makes me PO if they phone me and tell me they have a policy... I just tell them we have one too. It's usually a bunch of pen pushers making decisions they have no idea about how it affects everyone around them, but it sounds good and usually polishes someone's marble.

Keep your side clean and honest. Too may okes are participating in illegal and semi illegal activities - sooner or later they backfire. I will rather loose a deal than particpating in those things, I know some are very attractive. Sorry I wasn't suggesting you do, just mentioning it in general.

I wonder why someone doesn't shout racism on this issue. Why is it that if something is all black then it's ok, but if there is white in it it is wrong ? It's discrimination you know.

If there was no white people - if we were all black - what would be the situation then, how would they discriminate then ?

I received an SMS from someone saying by 2012 then 60% of your friends must be black. Please buy some nugget, I don't want to lose you as a friend ! Oh and there was the white guy who wanted a university bursary, couldn't get one ! He went to home affairs and changed his name from John Smith to John Mtwe-twe and re-applied. He got the bursary and was allowed to attend the university. Was in one of the newspapers if I remember right. And while I'm at it, sipho (before philamon becomes an issue) - sipho couldn't afford personalized number plates so he changed his name at home affairs to LSR753GP.

There are too many people in SA that has become dependant on wrong things. There are many that doesn't want crime to end. There are many that doesn't want BEE to go away. They allowed themselves to become dependant on these things and have no way out, not considering the majority of people experiencing problems as a result.

[Dave A]

I've been thinking a bit about what it would take to end BEE as I suspect there is little prospect of a "political solution" any time soon. And here's a thought:

BEE relies on the allowance for "fair" racial discrimination in the Constitution in order to be legally tenable. But are all instances of preferential procurement based on BEE fair all things considered?

What would make an interesting case before the Constitutional Court would be an instance where a contract was awarded on the basis of BEE rather than equal evaluation of tenders, but in this instance the BEE advantaged recipient of the tender happened to be significantly more economically advantaged than the racially predjudiced losing tenderer.

Unfortunately the biggest obstacle to finding a suitable case is the lack of transparency when it comes to public tenders nowadays.

[tec0]

If anything I am not too sure it will matter. Fact is BEE is a powerful tool when it comes to elections. That said, it is also true that BEE is directly connected to our economy and once our economy collapse due to the lack of imports such as food, petroleum products based on pure scarcity the system will break down.

The bigger picture is a really scary one make no mistake. In the end money is only worth something if we produce wealth. As soon as this is no longer true, South Africa will truly face the cost of BEE.

[Dave A]

Fact is BEE is a powerful tool when it comes to elections.

That is why I feel there is little prospect of BEE being brought to an end via political channels. It is going to take a successful challenge in a court of law.

And I suggest any such challenge is going to have to meet some pretty specific requirements to have any chance of succeeding.

[Fanie]

The bigger picture is a really scary one make no mistake. In the end money is only worth something if we produce wealth. As soon as this is no longer true, South Africa will truly face the cost of BEE.

The problem is that wealth is being created, but only in limited circles. The continuous price increases in SA should already be a warning that we're steering towards a disaster, for one, our money gets worth less and less. Zim went through exactly the same thing. You can already buy a very nice vehicle in the USA for around R200 000, here a rather poorly comparative vehicle starts at R500 000. SA is quickly becoming the most expensive country in the world to live in. When the collapse and chaos start, one will not even be able to sell his property for a plane ticket out of here. A farm could previously be bought with less zim $ than a bread cost over there now, as rediculous as it sounds. People won't have the money to buy your property, even if it gets sold dirt cheap. I had family living in Zim, they say it was exactly the same, just slower here, probably due to the larger existing infrastructure.

I'm busy with a project on the moment and had to get materials from a few places and was hoping some of them could do some of the basics using machines instead of me labouring the job. All I can say is I am so disappointed I feel like crying.

I work with technical things. I cannot stand the low standard of things being done, that or you have to be prepared to pay rediculous prices to have something done properly. A while ago I went on the internet, the overseas co's offer these services and you can see the product pictures looks like those of a first world country. Here I cannot even have materials cut to size or it looks like new stuff comes from a scrap yard. I see Eurosteel is closing down or was it a rumor ? Well the aluminum I got from them the last few times I ordered was so badly scraped I couldn't give it to a customer. It looked like it was dragged behind the vehicle. Sad. Where's it going to end.


Dave I doubt that BEE will ever be ended under this government. I think I mentioned that black organizations exist all over the world, while a single white one, even attempted, gets accused of racism. Check in the US how many there are, not a single white one. It's the same here, they will consider it racism if any one oposes it, despite it being a racially biased thing.

[Dave A]

Dave I doubt that BEE will ever be ended under this government. I think I mentioned that black organizations exist all over the world, while a single white one, even attempted, gets accused of racism.

Why do you need a "white" organisation to challenge BEE?

[tec0]

When one realise that there is nothing one can do to prevent BEE or other such systems one realise the severity of the situation to come. Remember all our food is being imported all our skill is being imported in the form of contractors. South Africa’s economics are dependent on outsourcing.

This is not a sustainable situation, if importing is stopped for any reason the effects will be immediate. Our economy will fall into a perpetual recession overnight. A national food crisis will become evident within days not months. The consequences from this point forward will be epical.

It is not a question of “IF” it is a question of when. As I said before the bigger picture is a really scary one.

Agriculture is key to our survival and I am not too that it is being advocated correctly. It is not about BEE or race or anything. It is about survival, the ability to produce Food when Food is in short supply.

[Fanie]

Why do you need a "white" organisation to challenge BEE?

I mentioned only to indicate how one sided black anything is is.


Tech0,

They want the Rand to be poor so that they can get a good exchange rate for exporting ie gold. The problem is that most other things are imported, SA have very little manufacturing capabilities. While the public has to pay 7 x more for most things, the government get 7 x more for the country's gold they sell.

[tec0]

I mentioned only to indicate how one sided black anything is is.

I wouldn’t be too sure about that Fanie, there are many of the majority thinking that this system is not working anymore. See not everyone is directly connected to the elite, thus poverty is still very much a factor in our country.

Right now I wouldn’t dare to guess where we will be in the next ten to twenty years. The economy is slowly grinding to a halt, and the fact is our gold and other resources is mismanaged thus there sustainability comes into question.

How long can the race card be plaid? Well I say this for all races if we can’t work together the alternative is extinction. The truth is however, it will be whatever is chosen.

[Fanie]

Hi Tech0,

I very much doubt if the economy is going to last another 10 years. An economy can only sustain people if it grows as the count grows. The severe poverty is going to become an even bigger problem. The only solution to many many many problems in SA is going to be when we can get rid of this government and hopefully get one in place that will serve the country and it's people.

Amazing that so short before the election Julias delema is in the news again eh. The somgs he sung is aparently part of their culture, so if that is justified then I can probably start using the k-word again and exersize apartheid because that was part of my culture too. Just waiting for the fuel price to drop a bit for those extra vote or two in their favor before the election so I can go fishing.

It would have been nice if the darn DA would also do their bit for a change. The only time I hear from them is at the vote box when the guy tries to convince me to vote DA in less than 10 seconds flat. They were a bit early this year though, I got a chain letter from them saying we must ALL vote DA, send this to everyone you know, like we are sheep. In my next life I also want to sit on my butt and do nothing and one day in the year spark a bit for a nice pay.

Sorry I know I'm off topic but if everyone here vote for the ANC perhaps the DA or someone else would wake up. DA votes in Gautengelengelengeleng = 0 as in vrot. The sooner the collapse the sooner something better will come along.

Right now I wouldn’t dare to guess where we will be in the next ten to twenty years

Exactly. You don't know how long you have to live left.

[tec0]

Exactly. You don't know how long you have to live left.

I am not too sure about the intend of this sentence Fanie... I am also not too sure that you understand what you typed here;

The sooner the collapse the sooner something better will come along.

I am getting the impression that you already “branded” me. "You don't know how long you have to live left." I first thought that it may be a mistake in your sentence, but it is not now is it?

I would seriously reconsider your attitude towards others Fanie. You strike me as a “if you are not with me then you are against me” type of person, thus making yourself a god over your own little world.

Let me state this simply: You have been disrespectful, you brand people and your statements and there implications are carried by other innocent people. But clearly you want to disrespect people without remorse and utter disregard to their safety.

I think you are self-obsessed, egotistical and reckless... It is not nice to be branded now is it?

Think about it, and while you do so also think about the damage you are causing because clearly these factors escapes you.