Installation of 220V downlights

[Sparks]

What I referred to was the way the bracket is hooked inside the spring. If the fitting is turned around you will see where the bracket should slot in. Something to get some paint off then slide the bracket in position and you have the required earth continuity. The bracket is then also securely mounted and if bent a bit increases the distance of the connecting block from the lamp. The manufacturers are not concerned with meeting the regs as they acquire SANS approval irrespective.

[Leecatt]

Well aware of this fact.

I am doing most of the work myself because I just don't trust most electrical contractors anymore, and even if I use them, it will mean i have to supervise the contractor's self trained off the street laborer inside my roof to make sure I really get what im paying for.

When I am finished with my renovation, i am getting a trusted professional electrician in to do the CoC, and move my DB board.

J.

To sign of an electrical certificate on work done by a non qualified person who did the work under no supervision is an illegal act.
Any electrician worth his salt would never consider doing such a thing as it may cost him his license.
Unfortunately in this industry that is not an option for you.
Your experience with electrical contractors has been dismal, perhaps you should stop using the types who use "self trained off the street laborer"
Contact your local Electrical Contractors Association Branch and get referred to a Qualified Electrician and if you have any comebacks then the ECA will deal with it on your behalf.
Alternatively contact the "trusted professional electrician" who you want to sign the COC and get him to do the entire job.

Attitudes such a this one annoy me, get the proper person in, pay him what he is worth for a proper job and then you will have no more problems, simple.

[Didditmiself]

installation of 220V downlights

if Jonnymes does his installation according to spec then surely it can simply be checked by a qualified electrician and if all is OK, sign it off and pay and let him go. To me it smacks of bureaucracy to make it illegal

To sign of an electrical certificate on work done by a non qualified person who did the work under no supervision is an illegal act.
Any electrician worth his salt would never consider doing such a thing as it may cost him his license.
Unfortunately in this industry that is not an option for you.
Your experience with electrical contractors has been dismal, perhaps you should stop using the types who use "self trained off the street laborer"
Contact your local Electrical Contractors Association Branch and get referred to a Qualified Electrician and if you have any comebacks then the ECA will deal with it on your behalf.
Alternatively contact the "trusted professional electrician" who you want to sign the COC and get him to do the entire job.

Attitudes such a this one annoy me, get the proper person in, pay him what he is worth for a proper job and then you will have no more problems, simple.

[Leecatt]

What I would like to know is the result of an earth continuity test on the fitting.

Sparks I have agonised over this fitting for years. Despite much research i cannot get anybody to tell me why it is acceptable to use.
I have come to the conclusion however, that the round part in which the lamp is held is not a part of the lamp fitting and is classified simply as a positioning device.

[Leecatt]

Diddithimself. If a non qualified person attempts such a job then he is not in a position to know the spec in the first place, Its all very well coming onto a forum and asking questions but there is much more to it than what is posted here. Many electricians on this forum have endured a 5 year apprenticeship followed up by 20 or 30 years experience, not to mention the endless hours of night school to get the wiremans license just to be in a position to be able to do the job correctly by encompassing ALL the factors in the electrical installation. It is not bureaucracy but plain common sense that tells one; If you want a job done correctly then hire a professional who knows what he is doing, pay him what he is worth and have the satisfaction of knowing that your and your family are safe in your own home.
Point in question; Yesterday is was asked to come to a house here in Primrose. I stripped down one plug in the kitchen to find out why here was no earth on it. This is what I found.

The plug socket outlet, along with 4 others in the kitchen, was wired with 1.5mm flat twin and earth cable instead of the required 2.5mm cable.
They were all supplied from the oven stove isolator which is protected by a 35 amp circuit breaker, 1.5mm cable has a rating of 14.5 amps.
Now, because the earth had not been connected in the stove isolator, the earth leakage did not trip when required to protect the plug and the consumer.

To call this dangerous is an understatement, to call it attempted murder or at the very least potential culpable homicide, would be more appropriate

And this work was done by the builder who renovated the kitchen 6 years ago. The same guy who had seen it done over and over again until he thought that he could do it himself because he "knew the specs" and could save a few bucks.

So before you decide to do it yourself, or even worse "go the cheap route", think about the potential consequences of your actions and how much the lives of those around you are worth.
There is a reason why electricians have to be qualified.
There is a reason why electricians have to be registered
There is a reason why we have to issue an electrical certificate on the work we do.
That reason my friend is YOUR SAFETY!

[ians]

I dont get what all the fuss is about, if you go to your local electrical wholesaler, the counter saleman will give you all the advise you need, what size cable to use, boxes, etc, and sell you all the sans approved equipment you need, so why do you have to pay an "electrician" (all the way from zimbabwe, kenya) who charge a ridiculous price (anywhere from as low as R120 per team, with as many as 5 in a team) to come and mess up your electrical installation on your property, when you can do it yourself properly and get one of the many certified electricians willing to make a quick buck on the side knowing full well that there is no policing in the electrical industry in SA.

As for the insurance companies paying out, if you are a good customer they dont want to loose and have the right broker looking after you, chances are pretty good, you gona get paid out. They will increase your premium to cover for the loss, but hey, no free rides, or if you unlucky like me and say the wrong thing (truth) to the assessor you gona be repairing it yourself even if it was done by a certified electrician.

[kyle.deon]

guys just a quick question here.... can downlights be daisy chained? or do we need to use an inspection box and feed each light from there??

[ians]

Why not, and use rip cord it is much cheaper than twin+e, just make sure when you fill in your coc, that you dont write your name or ID number on the document.

[Leecatt]

Why not, and use rip cord it is much cheaper than twin+e, just make sure when you fill in your coc, that you dont write your name or ID number on the document.

Dont joke, I have come across two houses where the xtensions, and one was a complete cottage, were wired in ripcord by some chap advertising his business on a tree

[Didditmiself]

Leecatt, thanks for the explanation. Wow, I am amazed that the family in Primrose have NOT yet had a tragedy with wiring like that!! I did say so long as one does the installation according to specifications, then it should be eligible for a COC. I did not say if one does a slapdash job without considering the safety aspect. But as you correctly say, you guys have trained for years in your field and obviously like my Engineering Qualification cost me big bucks yours cost you too and if everybody simply did the job himself, we would be unemployed.

[Sparks]

It was the same frustration with worthless contractors that led me to qualify in the first place. Today I make sure that when I go sleep I have made an installation safe for someone somewhere. I now have the knowledge and tools to ensure that the legal requirements have been met. At least you have taken your family's safety into consideration and asked questions Didditmiself, as Leecat pointed out, there are a lot of factors to consider and scary stuff out there. The salesman at the supplier is just that, a salesman, not an electrician. He also does not know where and how you intend to use the installation. If the suppliers are interested in anything other than money, why is it so difficult to get 4pole isolators. They should be kept in stock yet when I ask for one I am given a blank stare "no-one uses them" is the reason given why it has to be ordered.

[ians]

Unfortunately i am at a point where i am tired of banging my head, i cant think straight anymore, nor do i loose any sleep. At one stage i was also all for rules and regulations, but they keep changing so often, that i have lost interest. The electrical regulations have become like diets, one day chocolates are bad for you, the next day they are the best thing since sliced bread. Then you can bury a cable then you cant, then generators came along...need i say more. I am gona say this again, you cannot have rules and regulations unless you have a enforcement agency and punishment for offenders.

[johnnymes]

Guys where can I start with getting qualified for a Wiremans, my employer is willing to pay for "upgrading" me under a company program to develop skills.

If it takes 7 years or even 16 years, i am willing to attend classes and write tests well into second half of this century if that is what it takes to get qualified.

I have more than enough experience with DC & power electronics to start with, and i've done alot of DC installations and communications installs, i've spent too much time on sites helping professional electricians (with 3phase wiremans) sorting out the mess they've made, blowing up customer equipment, watching them struggle with their R50 test equipment, and i am too embarrassed to say what else i've seen these guys do.

Im not interested in becoming an electrician for the sake of making money or a living from it, i want this qualification to better my skills for starters, and maybe one day i'll do the tata bakkie thing and open an account at the local electrical wholesaler

[Leecatt]

Guys where can I start with getting qualified for a Wiremans, my employer is willing to pay for "upgrading" me under a company program to develop skills.

If it takes 7 years or even 16 years, i am willing to attend classes and write tests well into second half of this century if that is what it takes to get qualified.

I have more than enough experience with DC & power electronics to start with, and i've done alot of DC installations and communications installs, i've spent too much time on sites helping professional electricians (with 3phase wiremans) sorting out the mess they've made, blowing up customer equipment, watching them struggle with their R50 test equipment, and i am too embarrassed to say what else i've seen these guys do.

Im not interested in becoming an electrician for the sake of making money or a living from it, i want this qualification to better my skills for starters, and maybe one day i'll do the tata bakkie thing and open an account at the local electrical wholesaler

I am not sure what the requirements are these days, if you call the Electrical Contractors Board on 011 392 0000 I am sure they will steer you in the right direction.
If memory serves me correctly, In 2001 the requirements for an installation Electrician were:

A minimum of 3 years apprenticeship as an electrical apprentice.
Sit a trade test, pass and obtain a Trade Test certificate as an Electrician.
2 years experience working as an electrician after having obtained the Trade Test certificate (experience garnered prior to the qualification does not count)

6 months of college, I did night school, to learn the Electrical Rules and Regulations 10142-1.
Sit 2 exams on the above Regulations and pass both.

Apply to the Department of Labour for your wireman's license using all of the above qualifications.
Register with the Department of Labour yearly to retain the validity of the licence.

There is another qualification called an Electrical Tester but I dont know what that requires

After all that you may then feel like opening a business so you can begin to recoup some of the rewards for your efforts.

Just remember one thing, nobody ever opens a business to make friends or fly the moral flag.
You are in business to make money and provide a legitimate service, in that order.
The more legitimate and professional your service is, the more money you will make and there is nothing immoral about making money.

[Sparks]

you cannot have rules and regulations unless you have a enforcement agency and punishment for offenders.

Unfortunately that is the sad state of our country(no enforcement anymore) I am sure most would agree. Service is dependant on pride only which I am afraid has emigrated.